November 2nd Balance Changes Discussion

Shteevie

This is the place to discuss the upcoming Balance Changes described here:

November 2nd Balance Changes Discussion

lmfgunnut

Pretty pleased with most of these changes. Its as if Negan gave our heroes a cookie after....

TheLostOnes

Glad to see the luck `re-buff' even though luck is still worse than before 2.2.

Overall sounds good.

One thing missing: where's interrupt `re-buff'?

MadPuppy

Happy to see my overwatch play buffed.

Very happy to get so much information.

Amiga

Awesome changes!!!

Neil_J

Looks like my ode didn't reach the ears that matter but good to see some tweaks and admissions that some previous tweaks were too savage.
As usual, it's a case if suck it and see.
But, in fairness, there are some small steps in the right direction.

Shut_Up

It's a good start but since there is a common theme of over correcting things in one direction in an effort to balance them which leads to a follow up action of correcting things back the way they came please learn that when you rebalance things don't go crazy with it so that you have to correct the correction. There's a saying in health care that goes "start low and go slow." Might be to remember in the future.

I'm very happy though that we didn't have to wait for the next update.

I'm curious to see what this does to body shots on armored walkers. I'm not sure I like the cover reduction because the freeman are so freaking strong at 4 levels below you they can get a critical hit and cause injury. When you do need cover now it isn't there for you. Does that apply to outposts too? Never mind I saw it is supposed to help against outposts and sandbags.

Looks like the melee classes still needs some help. The reduced body shots is nice but there's still a chance so it's like let's flip a coin and see if my interrupt will actually stop this walker.

Amiga

Bodyshots on the same lvl or +1 were ridiculous. Hope to see it less now

kryptonix

Looking forward to these changes!

Shut_Up

I missed the part about rebalancing freemen. A level 18 freeman bruiser has 3800 health which is 600-700 more (times 2) than a level 20 survivor bruiser with a couple of pink stars and perfect armor. Just one of the countless examples that could be made showing the lack of balance between survivors and freeman/savior's/whatever they're called.

Amiga

Well done with changes I never doubt...

Poppy

Well there all positive changes good.

I would have liked to see melee skills buffed a little more as i still feel that melee is still not balanced correctly. Since they put themselves i think a good thing would be to have melee and range have their own separate tables for commonly shared traits, for example dodge on melee is higher than dodge on range as they are more skilled and agile.

Im not sure if the games coding would allow them yo do this but thematically it also makes sence. Maybe @Shteevie could advise if this is actually possible.

One other thing as well is human HP, i really really hope that the past challenge isnt taken as a bench mark for handling humans as that challenge was able to be pushed way way further than it normally could have been due to the shooter buffs.

Edit:- Also the new penetrate trait could it also be considered that it also lessens the damage reduction agaist armoured walkers, once again it makes more sence with the name you gave the traite as really at pressent accuracy would be a mkre fitting name.

TransmuteJun

It definitely seems like these changes are a step in the right direction. My hunters have been less and less effective with every update (or so it has seemed). It will be nice to see them regain something.

Shut_Up

Me and @Poppy brought up the exact 2 specific things. Great minds think alike.

I have a feeling that the battle over interrupt will continue for some time as this is NG's solution to using level 9 survivors on RSL maps of 30. If they want to fix interrupt to make players happy and not ruin the integrity of the challenge maps it's going to take the surgical precision of a scalpel and not the bludgeoning power of an axe so I expect the debate and tweaking of interrupt to be a long and arduous process. Don't take this as being insulting because it isn't it's just the way NG is and NG is definitely the bludgeoning axe and not the precise surgical scalpel.

Captainslayer

Wow thank you NG

Gladi

Had to read all twice. Hard to believe, but it seems NG really had some plan in mind. "Afterword" makes me nervous as "future rebalancing" can contain any possible nerf one can imagine, but let´s do hope in brighter future of WD:NML.

JayZ

WOOHOO! This is seriously awesome NG. I know there are still some folks that are not happy with interrupt, but the rest of the buffs are amazing. Thank you for taking our feedback into consideration and acting quickly to make certain traits/survivors viable again. I can't wait to cut down swaths of zombies with my Scouts again!

On the topic of interrupt, it's important to point out that interrupt was indirectly buffed in this update via the reduction of body shots, increase of critical hits, and increase in luck.

Shteevie

The kinds of changes we can make without changing code in the client [which requires an update] are limited. Those who are seeing this as "just one step" are correct, and we'll have more hopefully in the next large update later this year. For now, I hope that people have fun using stronger overwatch attacks and are a bit Luckier than before.

_NoName

Took a while to read through the all planned changes ... and I like it/them a lot! Thx
My only concern is the planned change for 2) Base Critical Hit Chance is not going to be enough to compensate for the super strong freeman in higher lvls! Anyhow, absolutely in the right direction ... even defensive stance and vigilant seem to become interesting traits now.

GrimGael

One can use an axe with precision. Try to be constructive here and stop this anti-axe propaganda. As an axe user myself, I resent the comparison and feel you are being very unfair flaming me this way. I have little axes and big axes and I put them ex-axe-ly where they have to be to get a big job done. Try smashing down an armored opponent or quartering timber for a long ship with your scalpel.

KaLi

Really love some of the new buffs to all the traits listed especially defensive stance and vigilant.

Thank you and glad to see it coming live soon!

Shut_Up

I'm glad I didn't start scrapping weapons that had luck and interrupt on them just yet. It could have been disastrous. I wonder how many people are kicking themselves for doing that or scrapping new weapons that haven't been upgraded yet because they thought luck and/or interrupt were just taking up trait space.

I like seeing posts about rebalancing that make players happy instead of pissed off and ready to riot. I do understand that this is just the beginning of the balance rebalance rebalance and that you are limited in what can be done without an update on the server side and that some changes are indirect changes.

Top8dog

@Shteevie

Loving most of the rebalancing above,..
I was hoping to see a reduction in freeman strength and health to more realistic values,.. My only concern I think about the above is the reduction in cover,.. This could also make playing against the freeman almost impossible now

Quite happy with everything else tho except I want more smileys
And,... The ability to like and disagree on a post or like and click awesome too

DLich

Shteevie said:

1) Luck
- Previously, survivor-based Luck scaled from 5% to 20%. Equipment-based Luck scaled from 5% to 15%.
- Now, Luck will scale from 10% to 25% on survivors, and from 10 and 20% on Equipment.

This turns 39% dodge into 42% dodge & 97.5% stun resist back to over 100% stun resist

Also turns 19.5% crit chance into 28% crit chance. Nice!!

I'm going to take a guess that lvl 3 luck is 15; lvl 5 luck is 20 and then +1 each "pink" star

I'll have to re-do my spreadsheet then

GrimGael

My post above was filled with humor and metaphor, but certainly was meant to say something. I am still very unhappy about the state of the game and the methodology that got it there. Perhaps you're isolating class by class with these events and improving things piecemeal but the idea you had to beat the game to death with mom's road sign first doesn't get bonus points. Looking at my attitude towards the game last year and the trend: it's a downward curve with a nose dive. This is not even a blip. Not joining the cheerleaders here as I would never encourage you to do things this way again.

jota

Top8dog said:

@Shteevie
My only concern I think about the above is the reduction in cover,.. This could also make playing against the freeman almost impossible now

this will definitively be a problem. there are fundamental differences in play style between outposts and regular challenges, it doesn't make sense changing things that will have opposite effects. wish I had a facepalm emoticon right now.

zbot

@GrimGael , please read the rules of the forum.

Keep your posts constructive. If you have a beef with the developers, don't be a jerk about it. Say your piece and move on.

You've said your piece.

OneLessTitan

Solid steps in the right direction.

Shut_Up

Here we go again with the censorship.

Necroboogie

@zbot ot think your the one out of line on this one, I agree with @GrimGael NG made HUGE changes that were out of proportion so that when some were given back they'd be taken gratefully instead of with all the negativity and complaints.

It's supposed to be give an inch and take a mile, not take a mile and have everyone cheer when you give most of it back... the changes were radically different then what was previously discussed (or told would be implemented)

Liking the changes for some of the OP (over powered) traits and feel that some still need tweaking, but it should be done for class not all across the board. There's a reason some classes hardly get played and changes should directly affect them and not the other classes to get them up to snuff.

Edit: darn autocorrect messed up my first name drop...

MadPuppy

The same goes for you @Shut_Up .

Nothing was changed at all.