A few questions about traits!

Gnidzor

Hello again!:)

1. Question about "luck trait": Does luck work together with all the traits that have a % chance of happening? for example. 20% luck +15% dodge (trait) 15% dodge on armor =50 % dodgechance overall? And if so do i have a 50 % dodgechance vs whatever or does higher level walkers/freemen reduce that chance in any way?=)

2. Also does luck work together with traits given by armor and weapons? for example: i have a weapon with 30% chance to not bodyshot, does this work with luck? and in the case when a weapon has luck, survivor has luck, do i get 30%+20%+20%? 70% chance of not bodyshotting?

3. I have one survivor that is critcapped (93% chance of critical hit) =90% cause cap. How does this work together with everything else, does that leave only 10 % chance of bodyshotting/normal hitting? or is there any explanation in how bodyshots. crits, and normal hits percentage work together?


Sorry if the questions is hard to understand or if my grammar sometimes makes it hard to read:) If there is any other thread about this just link me to it=)

Thanks!

Monsuta

Here is the luck trait calculation formula
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/16829/combat-rebalancing-in-2-2#latest

- The Lucky trait now increases the chance that other percentage-based traits will take effect by the listed amount.
- If a Survivor and their Weapon both possess the Lucky trait, both traits will contribute their full values.
- For example, if a Survivor has Threat Reduction at 75% and also has a total of 20% Luck from their survivor and weapon traits, the total chance for Threat Reduction is 90%.
In this example, .75 [base chance] times 1.20 [20% luck bonus] = .90, or a total chance of 90%.




Answer on Question 2: Yes, but the actual formula refer the above


Answer on Question 3:
https://twdnomansland.wordpress.com/combat-mechanics/

Edit: corrected question 2

I_Am_Psycho

@Monsuta - Question2 answer is both right and wrong, because more than one question was asked within it.

Basically luck is a multiplier so it wouldn't be 70%. But it does indeed work with traits across survivor, weapon and armour.

https://twdnomansland.wordpress.com/traits/

Monsuta

@I_Am_Psycho OP can realize the calculation formula from answer 1, but you're right that simple yes might be confusing.

I_Am_Psycho

@Monsuta - That's true. I need more coffee. I should have realised.

jimmorrison369

Also, piercing (the chance at body-shot is reduced) is NOT a luck based trait. It REDUCES THE CHANCE at body-shot. It is NOT a chance at not getting a body-shot.

jimmorrison369

http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/240843#Comment_240843

jimmorrison369

All bummed out now about @gespuer not with us anymore...

Gnidzor

@Monsuta
Answer on Question 3:
https://twdnomansland.wordpress.com/combat-mechanics/

this was very helpful, thank you!

Brings another question though. "If the walker is 5 lvls higher then my "ASL" the shot will always be a bodyshot" Does that mean my 30% piercing x1.40 cause luckstacking is totaly useless when we come to this point. and all that can save me from bodyshotting is getting pinkstars?

Monsuta

@Gnidzor You can read below that same page then you'll have your answer

"Once Walkers get 5 levels above your ASL, Body Shots will happen 100% of the time, unless you have the Piercing Trait (currently only available on guns and the Michonne Katana sold for $$). This is why Piercing is the most important ranged weapon trait if you want to earn as many Stars as possible in Challenges. Without Piercing, traits like Accurate and Sure Shot have no chance of activating against Walkers 5 or more levels above your ASL."

Piercing is still useful for those situation.

jimmorrison369

Again, mind you. Luck is ALWAYS useless when it comes to body-shots.

Luck has no interaction with body shot chances.

http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/135684#Comment_135684

Piercing also has no benefit from luck. Because piercing is not a chance.

Captainslayer

@jimmorrison369 I'm fairly certain you're wrong that luck doesn't stack with pierce.
Pierce trait text says "piercing reduces the CHANCE that your attacks will result in bodyshot by xx%"
which would make it a chance trait so luck would activate.

jimmorrison369

No, there is a chance at body-shot. Piercing only reduces that chance by a fixed amount.

The actual chance is the body-shot chance, and as you can see in the link above. Body-shot doesn't interact with lucky. That is a choice of NG.

Let's go way back to when luck was still stacking. 15% dodge and 15% luck was 30% dodge right? But if you had 15% dodge on the weapon,15% dodge on the survivor and 15% luck on the survivor it would not be 60% right? You agree it would be 45%.

That's because the chance at dodge in total would be increased by luck. Not each adjustment to the total chance.

This is the same, the chance at body-shot in total is adjusted by piercing, but it CAN NOT be changed by luck (see link above), cause NG decided luck doesn't interact with body-shot chance.


Last example. Critical chance, there is a base chance of 10% (shteevie said).
If I have accurate of 15% and sure-shot of 35% and lucky of 15%.

Calculation is (10%+15%+35%)*1.15, right? Again, look at how all those chances get added before lucky helps them. Same goes for body-shot, but lucky DOES NOT interact with body-shot.

jimmorrison369

So to conclude.
There is a chance at a body-shot.

Let's say it is 60%. If you have gold piercing. This number will get reduced by 30%. (60%-30%).

All other chances would now get the lucky factor, but bod-shot doesn't.
(As can be seen in the link I've posted above).

jimmorrison369

The difference is very subtle, but has serious implications. Traits themselves only ADJUST the chance. It's the actual chances that will, or will not, be affected by luck.

TJS

@jimmorrison369
Thanks for explaining that in more detail.
I get what you're saying now.
Thanks!

Captainslayer

@jimmorrison369 I understand and agree with all examples that you put out but the thread that you linked is before the pierce trait introduction (a week or 2 later with update 2.2) so luck had nothing to combine with to reduce body shots now with the trait I believe it does and from my experience with my 2 hunters (both with gold pierce) one has luck the other doesn't the one with luck does seem to get less body shot then the other

crambert_nec

@Shteevie @Fearofabotplanet Can any of you settle this? Does luck affect piercing or nah?

Shteevie

Luck's description reads:
"Improves the chances that other traits will take effect by X%."

Piercing's description reads:
"Reduces the chance that your attacks will result in Body Shots by X%."

Piercing 'works' all the time - that is, it always applies that change to the Body Shot chances, whether or not they turn out to matter. Because Piercing works all the time, it cannot be affected by luck. This is similar to how Lethal or Iron Skin, other traits that use percentages in their descriptions, are not affected by luck.

Part of the confusion may come from the fact that Luck does affect Critical Hit chance, which is inconsistent with the way luck affects other non-trait-based percentage chances. However, the interaction between Luck and Critical Hit chance is the exception, and not the rule.

If you want to put a fine point on it, consider a different hypothetical trait description for Piercing:
Actual: "Reduces the chance that your attacks will result in Body Shots by X%."
and
Hypothetical: "X% chance that a Body Shot will be changed into a regular hit."

The actual trait affects an event determined at random that does not originate from a trait. The second creates a whole new effect that occurs based on a random chance. You can hopefully see how the second would be affected by Luck and not the first, and also how the second has the potential to be much more or much less powerful than the original depending on the percentages, the level of the enemy you are attacking, and so on.

[And before anyone asks: no, we are not considering any changes to Luck, Body Shots, or the Piercing trait.]

Captainslayer

Cheers for the clarification @Shteevie the CHANCE word in the description of the trait made me think luck affected it.

PR0DJ

Shteevie said:

Part of the confusion may come from the fact that Luck does affect Critical Hit chance, which is inconsistent with the way luck affects other non-trait-based percentage chances. However, the interaction between Luck and Critical Hit chance is the exception, and not the rule.

Are you talking about Base Critical Chance (non-trait chance that all survivors have by default)?
And if so, how many % is it?

I_Am_Psycho

I also had believed it to be a random chance within a defined probability range, rather than a constant. I hadn't felt the need to read up on it before, as it appeared I already knew all I needed to.

Maybe a slight revision to the wording might help people in the future. Perhaps "30% less attacks, result in body shots" or something along those lines.

I_Am_Psycho

I also had believed it to be a random chance within a defined probability range, rather than a constant. I hadn't felt the need to read up on it before, as it appeared I already knew all I needed to.

Maybe a slight revision to the wording might help people in the future. Perhaps "30% less attacks, result in body shots" or something along those lines.

PR0DJ

Shteevie said:

Piercing's description reads:
"Reduces the chance that your attacks will result in Body Shots by X%."

@Shteevie
1. Can high level walker have more than 100% chance to bodyshot him before 30% reduction by Piercing?
2. Do Armored walkers have 100% chance to bodyshot them with ranged attack?

I_Am_Psycho

No random chance can be greater than 100%.

DoTak

@PR0DJ
Here's the link to Shteevie discussing critical chances. Don't be confused by his use of the word Overwatch. He admits it was an error on the next page, but he didn't edit his original post
http://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/249718/#Comment_249718

jimmorrison369

Body-shot chance max is 100%. So when you use piercing 30%, maximum body-shot chance is 70%. Edited months after original discussion to reflect current knowledge.

Firekid

That's not what I wanted to hear. So my idea of getting my bruiser to 90 crit chance isn't going to make any difference to higher level walkers? That's the opposite of what I was told by support :-( ah well change of plans then

jimmorrison369

@Firekid
Exactly, you'll still have fun using it up to 3 lvls above your survivor lvl (+1 for each pink star). After that your bruiser can basically only body-shot, unless you used the charged attack (good luck charging when only body-shot).