Flat Value or % Badges?? (Damage and Health)

OneLessTitan

If you are trying to decide between a % or a Flat Value Damage or Health Badge, here are some charts to help you decide. Remember that every council upgrade will deflate the value of a Flat Badge, but they can still be useful, especially with free badge removal events to swap badges out as you outgrow them.

If you want to mess around with potential Damage/Health badges, there is a "calculator" on Google Sheets. Please copy the file to your own drive and play with that version, as I think multiple people using the original at one time will create issues.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zC9Hdl1OZsSu5yNg9yyrnwKmuVv6ptj6nSz26G53F8s/edit?usp=sharing

There are a few assumptions on these charts:
1. Badge values are calculated based on Base Survivor Health/Damage Ratings + Legendary Damage/Health value from gear. This is what NG told me a while back when I asked how the Badges were applied, so I'm not sure if any new info has come to light. Marksman/Strong/Lethal do not factor into any of these numbers.
2. This is for Level 24 Survivors and Level 27 Legendary gear (too many variants to post them all). This doesn't apply to Heroes.

Edit: Just use these as guidelines for simplicity; there are a few nuances which will adjust these #s (like having a flat rate damage badge will slightly boost the value of a % Damage badge, as well as having marksman/strong/lethal traits) (credit to @jimmorrison369 for figuring out the order of operations for how damage/health badges are applied...I'll post his formulas below the charts)

Assault


Bruiser


Hunter


Scout


Shooter


Warrior



Any new info will always be posted on the site first:
https://twdnomansland.wordpress.com/badges/


Again, credit to @jimmorrison369 for these formulas:
Damage = (Survivor x ( 1 + Marksman/strong + Hero Boost)+ Weapon x (1 + lethal) + Badge flat value ) * (1 + Badge %boost)
Health = (Survivor + Armor * (1 + Armorboost) ) * (1 + Hero boost + Badge %boost) + Badge flat value.

ShadowaceAz

Bookmarking this. Haha

Where are the good old days of just folding the corner...

Cronus

Well done Professor!

ATLAS-Z

Also worth noting that I believe the calcs add in flat value badge amounts BEFORE the % bonus badges are calced, so for most classes except shooter and scout, having at least one nice flat badge is beneficial.

Drunken

NG should sticky this thread

CBgaming1969

Thanks @OneLessTitan WordPress.com TWD No Man's Land has been my number 1 go to guide since my first couple of months playing and found it. AWESOMENESS to update the badge page!!!!

jimmorrison369

OneLessTitan said:

There are a few assumptions here:
1. Badge values are calculated based on Base Survivor Health/Damage Ratings + Legendary Damage/Health value from gear. This is what NG told me a while back when I asked how the Badges were applied, so I'm not sure if any new info has come to light. Marksman/Strong/Lethal do not factor into any of these numbers.

Let me know if I've made a mistake in the calculation assumptions, and I can quickly fix them.

I can tell you, for 1. Lethal/marksman/strong is in there.
I don't want to scare you away with the formula's but I can literally prove it with these links.

This is the survivor I was calculating.
This is how I calculated for health.
This is how I calculated for damage.

Or you can just trust me.
Survivor base has marksman/strong and the hero boost.
The weapon has lethal boost.

The total of those 2 numbers Are increased by damage% badges.
Then there is also something to know.
A % badge will also boost the +badge.

EDIT_
You could also say, % damage is calculated AFTER everything else is calculated. So it takes in account every damage source.

jimmorrison369

Also remember this curiosity:
A damage% badge will boost a Damage+ badge.
A health% badge will NOT boost a Health+ badge.

OneLessTitan

@jimmorrison369 - gotta love when NG gives you bad info, but you probably spend more time working on these things than they do...

Edited my OP...

or just delete this post cuz i don't care that much...

OneLessTitan

@jimmorrison369 - one point of clarification regarding my post, I am using the actual BASE SURVIVOR AND HEALTH RATINGS. Obviously the displayed value you see on your survivor profile screen includes Lethal/Strong/Marksman, but those aren't the #s I'm basing the chart off of for simplicity. Unless you want a super confusing chart that is impossible to read, but that's not my style!

Cronus

@jimmorrison369 with the impact of % damage badges considered doesn't that make marksman/strong a more valued trait again? I've seen this empirically on my own survivors.

jimmorrison369

Yes, you should not do that because hardly anyone will be able to use it.
So big agree there...

So for clarifying my post.

The point I'm making I can best explain with a simple example.
Let's say survivor base is 1000
Weapon base is also 1000
Lethal = 15%
Marksman = 15%

Then damage is 1150+1150 = 2300

If you than have a % badge of 10%
it will be 2300 + 10% = 2530 damage.

That is what I mean by, lethal and marksman is in there.

bladgier

Awesome stuff, it was always my dilemma.

Thank you for lot of work!

CBgaming1969

@jimmorrison369 is the man!!

jimmorrison369

Cronus said:

@jimmorrison369 with the impact of % damage badges considered doesn't that make marksman/strong a more valued trait again? I've seen this empirically on my own survivors.

I would say, it is equal to before. It grows along with your badges.
I wouldn't call it more or less desirable. That really depends if you want up to 6% extra damage.
If you do want that, you should take the marksman/strong.

Then there is also a consideration if you have +badges. Then your lethal/marksman doesn't grow along, meaning the relative value will decrease.

jimmorrison369

So in the end. You can just use these charts.
Then if you have lethal or marksman/strong. You can correct the value for those percentage-boosts.
(only for %badges)

OneLessTitan

Edit: got my Level 24 Assault/Scout/Shooter #s to match up with the formulas...which verifies the #s the charts are based on).
But jeez....all these complications show why I don't want to even create badges or think about how best to equip them, and I have a nice spreadsheet to help me...


...and why i didn't even bother taking part in free badge removal weekend...cuz I'd rather take 1000 of @Jenng 's throat punches to the dick than re-equip my badges....

Jenng

I was borderline worried when I saw you mentioned my name in a percentage and real mathy sounding thread @OneLessTitan , My god , what a relief you just needed a dick punch.

OneLessTitan

Okay, if you want to mess around and try to figure out what your potential Damage and Health Values are, I set up a file on Google Drive for people to mess around with. Please copy the file to your own drive in case multiple people mess around with it at once. I'm not very familiar with sharing spreadsheets via this method, so let me know if there are any issues. I think I have protected the sheet so you can only type in the appropriate spaces. I also wouldn't mind some people verifying that the #s line up with their already badged up Survivors (just note that Hunter Damage won't be correct right now due to their bonus, and remember to use the ORIGINAL BADGE VALUE, not the value increased by a set--you can see this original value in your Craftsman Building under the "Badges" section).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zC9Hdl1OZsSu5yNg9yyrnwKmuVv6ptj6nSz26G53F8s/edit?usp=sharing

I will also link to this in the OP.

Edit: updated the sheet as I woke up in a cold sweat realizing I forgot to add the "Bonus Condition" section to Badges. If you've already saved it, you may need to save it to your drive again.

capibara

That's awesome!! Thanks
Feel pissed knowing i have lost both of you @jimmorrison369 and @OneLessTitan

OneLessTitan

A little more analysis here....if you're trying to decide between a Legendary Flat Rate Damage/Health Badge, or an Epic % Badge (as an example)...here's some comparisons for each class...

The most important column is the "MAX DIFF" and "MIN DIFF" columns...this shows the difference in Damage or Health Ratings if you use an Epic % Badge instead of a Legendary Flat Badge (the values I used for each are listed in the chart to the far right, and are the badge values in my inventory).

There are already a few classes where for Damage where it's wise to use the lower Prestige % badge over the LEG Flat Rate Badge (Scout/Shooter/Warrior), and it will most likely be better for ALL CLASSES after we get Level 25 Survivors (this table uses Level 24 Legendary Survivors with Lvl 27 LEG weapons). Each Pink Star (and Marksman/Strong/Lethal) probably makes the % Badges even better.


For Health, only Bruisers are currently better off with lower prestige % Badges, but again, it will probably be better for all classes after we have level 25 Survivors.

ShadowaceAz

Too
  many
    charts....

Boukephalos

BiggyGuyinTWD said:

Also worth noting that I believe the calcs add in flat value badge amounts BEFORE the % bonus badges are calced, so for most classes except shooter and scout, having at least one nice flat badge is beneficial.

The research seems to indicate that this is true for damage but not for health, as linked by @jimmorrison369 in this thread and discussed in How Badges Affect Survivors

zeeblack

@OneLessTitan can you share the survivor, hero, weapon and armor base data in excel. Thanks in advance