Imbalanced maps

WellyLuga

@Fluxxx @Vane

I know you guys will be swamped going through all sorts of data for GW, but can you add this to the agenda for future discussions. I'm not sure how the community feels but some of these maps are absolutely imbalanced, sometimes depending on the setup and the level they are on I'm willing to say they are virtually impossible.



You put autospawn body piles on the either side of a 1 space doorway. Walkers continue to pile through the doorway, when you kill one, another takes its place. They continue to spawn around you whilst you're trying to push through and you just get sandwiched. Hunters aren't really viable at levels this high and even if you did bring Sasha along these maps often have metalheads that block you from firing through to clear a path. Even with all of that, you still have a gate to open at the end. It is more frustrating since you can't preview the mission to know what to expect. So when you battle through the majority of a sector to find this one as the last map...

Have spawns or autospawns. Not both. If there's a 1 space doorway then maybe just have the autospawns behind you and not ahead of you or vise versa. I'm sure there are others that are as bad or worse than this but they just destroy the overall experience IMO.

MrChris

Yeah. Remember mission at 1C.3 with gate, spots, spiked and few other things. We finished with E3 (maybe even 4)+D5+C5 completed, but we lost 3 moves on 1C.3 ...

ATLAS-Z

Yeah imbalance plus no preview, this is my biggest gripe right now.

I got boned so hard a few weeks back on a level 36 mission like this...

I normally breeze through those, and I was so embarrassed by the loss.

But then others tried and same result. I figured a way through but it was a bitch.

Normally I can usually handle balanced missions thru 41+, so I couldn't believe I lost on 36.

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Result is you end up bringing your best "safe" balanced team into EVERY SINGLE MISSION.

how frigging boring is that?

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Mission Preview Include the following:

~ Special Walkers
~ Threat Counter
~ Body Piles
~ Open the Gate
~ Search for Clues
~ Kill All Walkers

You don't need to include "get to the exit" because, duh....

And like @Firekid said, Body Piles OR Threat Counter, not both.

All of this allows increased strategy and diversity of teams.

Thank you Mr @Fluxxx @Vane

psychwolf

That's the exact same map I got jammed on @WellyLuga
Two metal heads blocking the door. Kind of cheap and very annoying. Makes the whole GW thing even less appealing to me.

Firekid

I agree some maps are unbalanced and it’s a pain when you get one but... Only thing I want to add to this is that at least it’s the same maps for both teams and if you do manage to get trough one of these maps it’ll give you a massive advantage over the other team who may not be able to...

Fluxxx

I know what you mean, I had some trouble . We'll definitely discuss and look at our options on this one
@ATLAS-Z there's some limitations we have with mission previews, so it's doubtful we'll show all of that information, we're working on showing the main mission objective for now.

Firekid

I still don’t think I like the idea of knowing what you are going into. That’s part of the fun and it’s the same for both teams so it’s fair. Ah well if that’s what people want I suppose I’ll have to suck it up and poach those kill all missions before someone else does!

ATLAS-Z

If I had to pair it down...

- Special walkers, type
- body pile, yes/no?
- threat yes/no?
- gate yes/no?

Standard mission Preview won't help much I don't think.

If it just says in Mission preview "Get to the exit, don't attract attention" then we'll have to assume worst case scenario that there is a threat counter plus body piles plus search for clues plus gate to be opened.

If it just says in Mission preview "kill 15 walkers" then we'll have to assume worst case scenario that there is a threat counter plus body piles plus gate to be opened.

I'm not sure how much difference that's going to make other than like @Firekid said allowing people to snipe the KMA.

Ah well...

WellyLuga

Don't get me wrong, I want there to be some challenge and I get that both guilds have the same maps but I just think some of them need to be dialled back a little. When you're playing a map like this as a player you think one of two things. Does the developer even play their game? Have they designed this map to troll me? I sit there thinking 'wow, the guy who designed this is a total prick!'

I'm sure there are multiple maps with these 1 space doorways and I think they need to be balanced, maybe extended to 2 spaces.

@ATLAS-Z makes a good point though, a mission preview image might be a step too far when it comes to coding or whatever but it can't be that difficult to include a mission objective. All of the challenge missions have a description like 'kill all walkers' or 'find the loot and get out'. The distance too, that one will even update as you complete it - once you've met the first condition like killing x amount of walkers/raiders or opening the gate it will change to reach the finish.

ATLAS-Z

@Fluxxx I know I'm asking for a bit much, which usually gets you ignored pretty quick.

So if I had to REALLY simplify...

Things I want most:

1) Standard mission Preview
2) choose one (body pile / threat counter) never both

If you give us just that, OMG... me love you long time!

(Edit - if this happened, and you saw "don't attract attention" you could directly assume no body piles)

Cronus

@Fluxxx I'm going to pitch in and say you should review the data on sector 5E level 43 map 2 from battle dated March 19. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the success rate on that map vs. attempts is extremely low. Multiple metal heads and armored plus crates that are spaced very far apart. This one seems to need more than luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UbP4A85Zlc&t=9s

Kongany

> @Cronus said:
> @Fluxxx I'm going to pitch in and say you should review the data on sector 5E level 43 map 2 from battle dated March 19. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the success rate on that map vs. attempts is extremely low. Multiple metal heads and armored plus crates that are spaced very far apart. This one seems to need more than luck.


I would be happy to get this Map at 43. There are much heavier (sometimes almost impossible) ones.....

Cronus

Kongany said:

> @Cronus said:

> @Fluxxx I'm going to pitch in and say you should review the data on sector 5E level 43 map 2 from battle dated March 19. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the success rate on that map vs. attempts is extremely low. Multiple metal heads and armored plus crates that are spaced very far apart. This one seems to need more than luck.





I would be happy to get this Map at 43. There are much heavier (sometimes almost impossible) ones.....

I'm curious what team you'd take in then. Because if you don't find the crate by turn 2 it's tough to make way to the exit with the spawn coming.

WellyLuga

> @Cronus said:
> @Fluxxx I'm going to pitch in and say you should review the data on sector 5E level 43 map 2 from battle dated March 19. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the success rate on that map vs. attempts is extremely low. Multiple metal heads and armored plus crates that are spaced very far apart. This one seems to need more than luck.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UbP4A85Zlc&t=9s

It does look brutal indeed. The one thing I would point out is that there is no auto spawn. Take along Daryl's knife rather than the spear and chip away at them

Kongany

> @Cronus said:
> (Quote)
> I'm curious what team you'd take in then. Because if you don't find the crate by turn 2 it's tough to make way to the exit with the spawn coming.

There is no body pile and lots of space...ideal conditions to reduce.
Is this note sufficient 🙃 ?

Cronus

Kongany said:

> @Cronus said:

> (Quote)

> I'm curious what team you'd take in then. Because if you don't find the crate by turn 2 it's tough to make way to the exit with the spawn coming.



There is no body pile and lots of space...ideal conditions to reduce.

Is this note sufficient 🙃 ?

Yes it is!

Firekid

Just came across one which was absolutely brutal. 2 level 43 goos, 2x armoured and some normals. Single space door way more than 2 moves away. Body pile by the door and an incoming in 3 turns. 1 goo and armoured in your room and 1 each in the other room. Either you can charge through the door and get stuck between them or they walk into the doorway and you are screwed. So frustrating. Maybe if it didn’t have goo walkers/fatties it would be doable. Oh and it was kill 15 walkers.

Paste

Special walkers are higher levels than normal walkers in GW right? I haven't kept track, but recall losing an attack and being wiped out because of this.

If so: Why? This only adds to the poor balance? If anything they should be lower levels. I get why they are higher levels in other missions for dramatic "boss" effect, but this doesn't work in GW imo.

WellyLuga

@Firekid Jesus H. Christ that looks horrendous. I gave you a JSS but I'm guessing you didn't

I've had a few 1 space doorway maps and they have all been horrendous. It needs addressing really. Or at least the auto spawn removing. It would be more doable if you could go back with with a TR knife and try to keep the spawns low.

Grendel

I think the saves / do-overs suggested in this thread would help with these maps.

https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/42239/mulligans-do-overs-to-give-players-motivation-to-try-harder-maps#latest

At least you could get a peek at them and get slaughtered without losing an attack...

WellyLuga

Can I just bring this up again? @Fluxxx. I know you guys will more than likely be busy with updates and tweaking GW on the whole but I'm sure many of the maps are unchanged. I have still seen some crazy bottle necks, auto spawns and threat counter, search for clues and then open a gate, so on. This side of GW is probably the most frustrating side IMO. I get that things should be hard and I am all for a challenge but some maps are so imbalanced that you need an incredible amount of luck/attacks/tools just to pass them.

Another thing is spiked, since they cause bleeding, block charge attacks and can literally end a mission in one attack I can't help but feel that having 2 on the same map is a bit overkill.


This map sticks out, it is crammed from the get go and you have to navigate through a meat grinder whilst hoping to not alert them. You have to kill 15 walkers whilst dealing with auto spawns and a threat counter. Maybe I'm moaning and I need to 'get good' but I think any map with spiked walkers should be capped at 1.

euchid

Spiked was the problem.

Stalker20

Totally agree, a lot of these maps become unplayable because of the choke points, having the spawns coming from the side you're trying to get to is just bad mission design. I know great challenge players who really struggle with gw maps. It should be a game mode to look forward to, as it is I appreciate the off weeks more. 

Stalker20

Level 41 search for clues mission, yeah stick a spawn point right by the gate! 
This game mode is not enjoyable for me at all. 

3vilrine

So much for imbalanced maps.

Please do something against your weird random barrel placements (same for body piles). It is not cool when barrels blocking chests I have to open at a map which is already way to close. This level was not even that high only 38, but stuff like this makes it 100% harder, cost you another round just to get behind this barrel.

WellyLuga

3vilrine said:

So much for imbalanced maps.

Please do something against your weird random barrel placements (same for body piles). It is not cool when barrels blocking chests I have to open at a map which is already way to close. This level was not even that high only 38, but stuff like this makes it 100% harder, cost you another round just to get behind this barrel.

The 2nd one isn't so bad as you could probably use Sasha to blow that one and clear the room to grab the crate. The first one is laughable though, I bet with the way the angles work it would make her run around the corner and shoot it from 2 spaces away and blow herself up

Governator

Yeah, and with those maps with choke points (only room for one to pass), the devs always program a fattie, spiked, metalhead, or armored to block it. Really sucks.

Stalker20

@Fluxxx please tell us that these maps are going to be improved, they're set up for failure or spending a ton of gold. My guildmates are unhappy with it and I bet many more are in other guilds. A game should be enjoyable, this isn't.