I insist....matchmaking is not fair..

ghost_pepper

Yeah, team play always beats free for all.

Stalker20

So far this week we have been matched against El Origen, Wild Walking and GK Crew A, these are all much higher scoring guilds than us, in other words a total mismatch @Fluxxx, challenge stars need to be a part of the matching calculation. 

Fluxxx

Do you know what was your guild VP compared to their at the time of matching? Challenge stars will not at any point be part of the GW matchmaking, as it's a completely separate mode, and there are guilds who focus exclusively on GW.

Stalker20

ATLAS-Z

Matchmaking is working pretty solid across all of our guilds

That said we have lost more than weve won in the opening week

Just bad luck of the draw it happens

Fluxxx

Are these screenshots all from the time you've been matched?
Matchmaking essentially matches you with an opponent closest to your guild in current season VP, who has the same number of participants signed up (and also excluding anyone that you've already been matched in the given war). It's quite strange you would be matched against an 85k VP guild if you were 60k, though it is possible since you're only 1 tier apart.

Stalker20

Thing being is my players that do the enemy missions are saying that they faced 5 pink Eugene and Glenn, having those is more likely to succeed in higher level missions, if your guild is top 20 glb you're much more likely to win against guilds that aren't. 

Stalker20

@Fluxxx if it's a totally separate mode how do injuries carry over? 

WellyLuga

Danski_46 said:

Thing being is my players that do the enemy missions are saying that they faced 5 pink Eugene and Glenn, having those is more likely to succeed in higher level missions, if your guild is top 20 glb you're much more likely to win against guilds that aren't. 

I think the amount of players is the main contributing factor. I don't think many people are fighting with 9 players so we were probably the closest match on that particular day. Most of the guilds around us fight with 6-8 or with 10.

capibara

There are still problems with the number of players? 

With the new update i never had problems with the number of players

capibara

Danski_46 said:

So far this week we have been matched against El Origen, Wild Walking and GK Crew A, these are all much higher scoring guilds than us, in other words a total mismatch @Fluxxx, challenge stars need to be a part of the matching calculation. 

...but you had a different number of players or the guilds have the same number?

Because playing agains a stronger player is not matchmaking for me... as i said there will be no competitive league or everything in the world if all the teams were on the same level... 
..imo only unfair is to play against a team of 6 players if you are playing in 5 ...everything else is just Guilds War

Karajoca

Danski_46 said:

Thing being is my players that do the enemy missions are saying that they faced 5 pink Eugene and Glenn, having those is more likely to succeed in higher level missions, if your guild is top 20 glb you're much more likely to win against guilds that aren't. 

I try to see your point but then read this, and it's completely false impression about what is needed to succeed in high level missions. Besides, i played that battle and encounter just a solid number of 4- 5 pinks at Watchtower guild. 
You play good, win, improve, move through rankings and quality of your enemy improve too. Then you lose a few because you are not good enough to stay at those ranks, but next week you can again expect some easier opponents because you fall down. Then will raise up again.
It's just how it works - impossible to have easy matches all the time. 

capibara

Karajoca said:

Danski_46 said:

Thing being is my players that do the enemy missions are saying that they faced 5 pink Eugene and Glenn, having those is more likely to succeed in higher level missions, if your guild is top 20 glb you're much more likely to win against guilds that aren't. 

I try to see your point but then read this, and it's completely false impression about what is needed to succeed in high level missions. Besides, i played that battle and encounter just a solid number of 4- 5 pinks at Watchtower guild. 
You play good, win, improve, move through rankings and quality of your enemy improve too. Then you lose a few because you are not good enough to stay at those ranks, but next week you can again expect some easier opponents because you fall down. Then will raise up again.
It's just how it works - impossible to have easy matches all the time. 

..and have “easy matches all the time” would be depressive...

3vilrine

Karajoca said:

You play good, win, improve, move through rankings and quality of your enemy improve too. Then you lose a few because you are not good enough to stay at those ranks, but next week you can again expect some easier opponents because you fall down. Then will raise up again.
It's just how it works - impossible to have easy matches all the time. 

.. and the problem of that is the reset of everyone's stats on a new season. There should be not something like "a new season" because all the matches in the start are unbalanced because of the lack of data (Every guild starts from 0). They should just keep an alltime data stat to prevent stuff like that. And over a long run the matchmaking would be balance out. There is a reason why "real games" with competitive ladders (most of the time), never reset the stats.

Burmeliinis

3vilrine said:

.. and the problem of that is the reset of everyone's stats on a new season. There should be not something like "a new season" because all the matches in the start are unbalanced because of the lack of data (Every guild starts from 0). They should just keep an alltime data stat to prevent stuff like that. And over a long run the matchmaking would be balance out. There is a reason why "real games" with competitive ladders (most of the time), never reset the stats.

I like that the points are reset. There is a limited amount of guilds, and especially top guilds, and I'm sure pretty much everyone would hate to play the same 4-5 other teams every week. This way you get to meet a more varied amount of guilds, and my impression is that already by week 2 matchmaking is pretty fair.

Also there is very little incentive to be a top scoring guild (ealier for example the guild shop items were tiered) so getting a few easy wins at the start of the season is a small reward for the hard work of your team. 

Karajoca

3vilrine said:

There is a reason why "real games" with competitive ladders (most of the time), never reset the stats.

I agree but you are talking about individual ladders, right ? We are having guilds here, and  guilds strength change with time, from season to season. New players arrive, new guilds formed... It's good to have reset . Also, Big gap would be created and you would eventually be playing same guilds every week. Not sure how that can be good.
For me it's a pleasure to face some strongest guild in game. Really exciting, intense. Fights we had, remarkable moments and something that will always stay in my memory. I am glad i stayed in the game to experience that. Really hope this mode will become enjoyable for everyone with time, it has big potential.... but yeah, requires some changes, still.

Karajoca

Changes i would like to see requires brand new format so i have no high hopes for them and didn't make a thread about it.

But i would like to see Leagues, with different rewards in each, and every guild can decide where they want to fight. 

Example : Master League, play 10vs10, biggest rewards
Gold League - 8vs8 & 9vs9 
Silver league 7vs7, 6vs6
Bronze - 5,4,3

Master League example : 
I would let league lasts 5 straight weeks(35 days), in which period guild need to arrange themselves 16 matches. Would be nice to be able to reach out other guilds from your league, "challenge" them, set date for match, we decide our own pace of war. 
While challenging guild, having some kind of "bounty" to set and fight for would also be cool, IMO.

There are lot of solutions, but whole format need to change. I think just upgrading on this is not working, not satisfying most of the people. 

3vilrine

Burmeliinis said:

3vilrine said:

.. and the problem of that is the reset of everyone's stats on a new season. There should be not something like "a new season" because all the matches in the start are unbalanced because of the lack of data (Every guild starts from 0). They should just keep an alltime data stat to prevent stuff like that. And over a long run the matchmaking would be balance out. There is a reason why "real games" with competitive ladders (most of the time), never reset the stats.

I like that the points are reset. There is a limited amount of guilds, and especially top guilds, and I'm sure pretty much everyone would hate to play the same 4-5 other teams every week. This way you get to meet a more varied amount of guilds, and my impression is that already by week 2 matchmaking is pretty fair.

Also there is very little incentive to be a top scoring guild (ealier for example the guild shop items were tiered) so getting a few easy wins at the start of the season is a small reward for the hard work of your team. 

Can't disagree with the point that no one wants to face the same guilds over and over, but that the "balance" starts after 2 weeks is also not perfect.

Maybe something like "Placement Matches", where guilds play like 1-2 Wars to get placed in a specific area.. before the "real" War starts afterwards.

Karajoca said:

3vilrine said:

There is a reason why "real games" with competitive ladders (most of the time), never reset the stats.

I agree but you are talking about individual ladders, right ? We are having guilds here, and  guilds strength change with time, from season to season. New players arrive, new guilds formed... It's good to have reset . Also, Big gap would be created and you would eventually be playing same guilds every week. Not sure how that can be good.
For me it's a pleasure to face some strongest guild in game. Really exciting, intense. Fights we had, remarkable moments and something that will always stay in my memory. I am glad i stayed in the game to experience that. Really hope this mode will become enjoyable for everyone with time, it has big potential.... but yeah, requires some changes, still.

Might be correct because the playerbase is not big enough and too much changes every new season (guild intern).

ghost_pepper

So then selecting your league would cause you to have certain rewards available?

Take the gold components for example. At a lower tier league, they could cost less in the shop but there would also be fewer. At a higher level there would be more available for purchase in the shop but also at an increased cost.

Did you see something scaled like this?

Gobold69

Fluxxx said:

Are these screenshots all from the time you've been matched?
Matchmaking essentially matches you with an opponent closest to your guild in current season VP, who has the same number of participants signed up (and also excluding anyone that you've already been matched in the given war). It's quite strange you would be matched against an 85k VP guild if you were 60k, though it is possible since you're only 1 tier apart.

is my total of 2/3 pink against someone with 12/12 fair?

brucewayne007

Gobold69 said:

Fluxxx said:

Are these screenshots all from the time you've been matched?
Matchmaking essentially matches you with an opponent closest to your guild in current season VP, who has the same number of participants signed up (and also excluding anyone that you've already been matched in the given war). It's quite strange you would be matched against an 85k VP guild if you were 60k, though it is possible since you're only 1 tier apart.

is my total of 2/3 pink against someone with 12/12 fair?

Mate if you are rolling 2-3 pinks and complain against others that have 5. 

Shit happens dude
they are still very beatable! I am more then happy to match up with that and eat them in GW. 

You probably need to get a better strategy chief 

ghost_pepper

Gobold69 said:

Fluxxx said:

Are these screenshots all from the time you've been matched?
Matchmaking essentially matches you with an opponent closest to your guild in current season VP, who has the same number of participants signed up (and also excluding anyone that you've already been matched in the given war). It's quite strange you would be matched against an 85k VP guild if you were 60k, though it is possible since you're only 1 tier apart.

is my total of 2/3 pink against someone with 12/12 fair?

ghost_pepper

Are you checking the opponents items before you go in? It doesn't matter how many stars they have as long as they aren't wearing anti-stun. That's chum in the water. If you know which ranged have fire and interrupt then you know who needs to be avoided or who to stick your 80% dr bruiser wearing gold hazard next to. It's not hard if you follow the pacing of the walker spawn waves.

Thunderstorm

What is fairness?

Different people view fairness differently. In my opinion, there is no such thing, at least not in human history. One man’s fairness is another man’s unfairness.

 

Example (read this: it is just an example to clarify my opinion)

Scenario: Player A is matchmade with Player B in GW. Player A has much better equipment than Player B.

 

Towards Self

Player A feels that because he spent money on the better equipment, it is only fair that he should win the match

Player B feels that in a PvP game, it is only fair that both sides should be roughly the same strength

NG feels that it is only fair that both sides are entitled to purchase the better equipment at these prices if they want to win the match

 

Towards Others

Player A feels that it is unfair of Player B wanting both sides to be roughly the same strength? Why should it be?

Player A feels that it is unfair that NG charge a high price on the better equipment.

 

Player B feels that it is unfair of Player A to use better equipment to his advantage to win the match.

Player B feels that it is unfair that NG allows players to buy better equipment to give others the advantage.

 

NG feels that it is unfair of Player A who claims that the prices of the equipment are too expensive. NG feels that’s the cost of winning the match.

NG feels that it is unfair of Player B to prevent NG from making money through the sale of the equipment and preventing others from upgrading.

 

Sorry but as you can see, there’s no such thing as fairness. Just different views.

 

kinko

 I can understand the frustration when we lose. but This is the competition. I think NG does a very good job regarding the fairness of Guild Wars matching. I have no complaint  about that.

[Deleted User]

It's silly to complain that you got a strong opponent. In any sports, be it a cup or a league, you always have to play against equal, weak or strong opponents.

The only thing that was not fair when the matchmaking was + - 1 by the number of players in the team, but this was fixed

T_12

Simply put, it's all fun and games as long as you're playing the single player way. With a multiplayer oriented approach such as Guild Wars, you are always susceptible to facing opponents who are wayy better or worse. Why? Because the game has been designed in a pay-to-win format. Undoubtedly skill takes a step back here as well as spirit of fair play.
Wish NG had implemented this mode differently, creating a level playing field. It is a game after all.

rogueDS

Skill is a huge part of this game. More than people think. It shouldn't always be easy.  The 1st 2 wars is always tricky because everyone is on same playing field.  The match making is fine in my eyes and many others agree.  You can only ask for so much from NG and need to be realistic. The guild I am in won all battles last war and 3 of them where by around 20 to 50 points.  Those are the fun matches. 

zombieornottobe

do away with gw scoring and give participation tokens to everyone. That way everyone feels good. Btw, participation tokens can be redeemed for nothing, in fact ng could monetize this by charging us to remove them from our accounts.

Governator

My guild just got matched with a Silver II guild while we are still Silver III. To add insult to injury, only 2 of us in the battle are Player Level 74. We have some teammates ranging from PL 61 to 72. Clearly they are not running with maxed survivors and gear. The other team clearly has most if not all PL 74 players because their scores are 350-400+. We don’t have a prayer of catching them with our team. 

I get the matchmaking is based on the VPs and tier, but I think it should also look at the cumulative Player Level as well. That would do a better job of leveling the playing field IMO.