Sectors open from the beginning

Burmeliinis

Agreed. A maxed out team doing only the D-line and higher, but not able to do the hardest sectors, will in the current format be forced to do the 1-D line of missions as well. 1-D only gives 37 pts in average, so already a lvl 42 KAW mission will give more points. If all sectors are open it will not be very hard to double up on those missions.

But! Doubling also requires quite a bit of coordination, so the idea of giving more freedom by opening up sectors might actually backfire if it means guilds now instead need to make sure everyone is online at the same time so they can double up on the missions that give the most points.

So I am also in favor of removing KAW missions in this mode. That said, KAW is a really nice part of the game, and finding a hard sector with lots of KAW missions is like finding a treasure, so from that perspective this might not be a change for the better. But for one war I'm in.

Jens_KF

Karajoca said:

But it's very true that this is can turn into jumping party on high level KAW missions. 
Teams will still be able to double up points, will just have to do it on some more challenging missions

I don’t think, that it would be that mich. Since they raised the points for closed sectors, so need to go really high to get more points with kaw. And most of these guilds will not be able to finish these much higher kaw anyway. For example, to close 6E (638 points) gives more points, than 12x kaw on 47 (624 points). And a guild how is not able to close 6E will for sure not be able to close 12 kaw on 47. 

so I believe, that they will be better off by doing the sectors normally.

Karajoca

I am not bothered how will guilds who weren't able to open 6-H boost their scores.
Rules apply for everyone and also top guilds, and that is why i am telling KAWs should be removed. 

Having all sectors opened from start and KAW maps into them, you are making too easy job for me, i see no challenge at all

Now, excuse me, i won't discover what exactly i am planning to do    But guilds on top will be unstoppable!

It's just my opinion, don't claiming i am right about it.
Missions are already much easier, spawns under control, less fails in general. 
Add red gas on top of it (unless they give up, which we all hope for) and than, all sectors opened with easy missions available to snipe before battle start... not good

ATLAS-Z

Agree @Fluxxx

I support an open map, but only if KAW mission go away. 

Otherwise, no

kinko

It's easy to imagine the horrible conflict within guilds for KAW. Not all guilds are properly controlled, as you know. Open map with no KAW please.

3vilrine

kinko said:

It's easy to imagine the horrible conflict within guilds for KAW. Not all guilds are properly controlled, as you know. Open map with no KAW please.

mir

It's time to do this @Fluxx (I speak on behalf of my Guild and friends), I think many of the ru cluster will also agree, if not , write me in private messages, I will talk to you there, you will change your mind)) infinite beta, change everything every week(two), let's find what is beneficial to you @Fluxx and interesting to us @universe

Fluxxx

KAWs are some of the most enjoyable missions, especially for beginners/intermediate players.

I'm just thinking out loud here: if we compromised, and had no KAW missions in harder missions (sanctuary, perhaps junkyard too), but they were still available in Forest missions - would that still pose a problem for you? (mainly addressing the endgamers here)

Karajoca

That's understandable and makes sense. I agree that beginners should have them included in early missions. My concerns are only when comes to Sanctuary sectors. 
It will bring whole new dimension to them without KAW. 

Randomness of how many of this maps appear in highest sectors are killing leaderboard and regularity. You can have multiple "jackpots" through season on 6-H with many KAWs or you can have none. 
Now, make those sectors open from start, guilds can plan their best and easiest route according exactly to where this type of maps are. 

paeaeaesch

I don't like deleting KAW completely, because it's an aspect which allows guilds with better teamplay to reach better scores. And thats what GW should be about, instead of who buys the most grenades wins.
Trading high level KAW against "hard" lower level maps or doubling KAW with others requires coordination/teamplay and is rewarded with overall better scores. With open sectors AND deleting KAW there will be no need for any teamplay, everybody just does his own thing. 

I think it would be better if the amount of KAW in a sector is fixed for everybody, maybe one KAW per sector. This would negate the slot machine factor, which has too much leverage on the leaderboard and still allow some kind of teamplay.

mir

KAW in heavy missions can be removed completely. They are not interesting , you just stand and kill, sometimes in a crowd . The winner is the one with the larger crowd and who made fewer mistakes along the way.  If you remove KAW 1) , we get new tactics, and do not play like slot machines. 2) you open more cards(maybe not all) 3) make the card longer and maybe a little harder.  After all, this is a Beta War, let's try it.  4) do it tomorrow @Fluxxx , I'm just playing )

ATLAS-Z

Fluxxx said:

KAWs are some of the most enjoyable missions, especially for beginners/intermediate players.

I'm just thinking out loud here: if we compromised, and had no KAW missions in harder missions (sanctuary, perhaps junkyard too), but they were still available in Forest missions - would that still pose a problem for you? (mainly addressing the endgamers here)

Yes, that would be nice compromise

avelardez

This was our completed score yesterday. And the map is today. I’m stuck waiting to see who can kill the humans since many don’t want to waste 1 attack to do an easy mission. Opening the entire map would help team members from waiting hours during the day for others to open up the maps. I would support the entire map to be opened to allow better play time for guilds. 

Paste

No need to completely remove KAWs even from hard sectors imo. You can make the walker levels higher, say +20-30%, and remove the difficulty penalty from those badly imbalanced "Kill the Tough Walker(s)" missions. Those would be the hardest mission types even without the levels being higher. Clearly no one from NG tested these,

Billbam

In my guild the KAW missions are very important in helping us decide which higher level sections we can close.  Take them away and it will immediately hurt higher but not leader board type guilds.  Also players love to be able to get together near the end of the battle to use their spare attacks by piling into the KAW maps.  Again this isn't all about top 10 teams, leave something for other teams to enjoy.

WellyLuga

Fluxxx said:

KAWs are some of the most enjoyable missions, especially for beginners/intermediate players.

I'm just thinking out loud here: if we compromised, and had no KAW missions in harder missions (sanctuary, perhaps junkyard too), but they were still available in Forest missions - would that still pose a problem for you? (mainly addressing the endgamers here)

What's this forest mission of which you speak? I know only the sanctuary, blind corners and spikes in every shadow

I agree that KAW should be removed from highest level sectors, so much of your score depends upon it. A good draw vs a bad draw with them can be the difference of several hundred VP. Not to mention jumps, oh man I am so sick of them. It is such a silly game mechanic, especially when we have the blue dot warning which I am sure was designed to discourage things like this happening. Either remove KAW or just make it so any duplicate swords used on the same map rewards 0 VP.

brucewayne007

Billbam said:

In my guild the KAW missions are very important in helping us decide which higher level sections we can close.  Take them away and it will immediately hurt higher but not leader board type guilds.  Also players love to be able to get together near the end of the battle to use their spare attacks by piling into the KAW maps.  Again this isn't all about top 10 teams, leave something for other teams to enjoy.

That’s what he is speaking about. 

Those guilds that are Top5-10 
DSF has only just come back into the fold. 

KAW missions are all levels for need gamers are boring. And if you struggle with them and you are endgamer. 

Look in the mirror and give yourself a slap. 

I believe they should be scattered throughout for the lower teams. 

But the 6-G/H for example. And some of those harder ones. No KAZ would really create some intense competition 

brucewayne007

How about how about the game prevents Jumping? 

Man that would save a lot of organisation. 

Because jumps is what is the difference. 

But have a flawless (No losses) round that completes the sectors Given and will give max points. 

The fact we have about 5-10 left over is shit. 

Piling sucks
we do it. But it’s the only way to win if we do the same sectors without fail. 

brucewayne007

WellyLuga said:

Fluxxx said:

KAWs are some of the most enjoyable missions, especially for beginners/intermediate players.

I'm just thinking out loud here: if we compromised, and had no KAW missions in harder missions (sanctuary, perhaps junkyard too), but they were still available in Forest missions - would that still pose a problem for you? (mainly addressing the endgamers here)

What's this forest mission of which you speak? I know only the sanctuary, blind corners and spikes in every shadow

I agree that KAW should be removed from highest level sectors, so much of your score depends upon it. A good draw vs a bad draw with them can be the difference of several hundred VP. Not to mention jumps, oh man I am so sick of them. It is such a silly game mechanic, especially when we have the blue dot warning which I am sure was designed to discourage things like this happening. Either remove KAW or just make it so any duplicate swords used on the same map rewards 0 VP.

Couldn’t agree more. 

0 points for a jump

brucewayne007

Paste said:

No need to completely remove KAWs even from hard sectors imo. You can make the walker levels higher, say +20-30%, and remove the difficulty penalty from those badly imbalanced "Kill the Tough Walker(s)" missions. Those would be the hardest mission types even without the levels being higher. Clearly no one from NG tested these,

Sorry to disagree with here. 

But hear me out. 

The kill tough walkers is a welcomed edition. Something new, fun

and can be a cool challenge at a tough level. 

I think we have some hard missions available. It all comes down to the map layout. 

brucewayne007

avelardez said:

This was our completed score yesterday. And the map is today. I’m stuck waiting to see who can kill the humans since many don’t want to waste 1 attack to do an easy mission. Opening the entire map would help team members from waiting hours during the day for others to open up the maps. I would support the entire map to be opened to allow better play time for guilds. 

Did you guys have a lot of lost matches. 

Seems a low score for 9/10 players. 

I see a 700 here

i think you guys have the talent but need to reassess your approach. 

Someone not turn up????

brucewayne007

mir said:

KAW in heavy missions can be removed completely. They are not interesting , you just stand and kill, sometimes in a crowd . The winner is the one with the larger crowd and who made fewer mistakes along the way.  If you remove KAW 1) , we get new tactics, and do not play like slot machines. 2) you open more cards(maybe not all) 3) make the card longer and maybe a little harder.  After all, this is a Beta War, let's try it.  4) do it tomorrow @Fluxxx , I'm just playing )

Mate I agree! 

I hate teams winning cause they have piled better, lost 10 swords compared to a team who piled poorly and lost 2 swords. 

Let’s be rewarded for doing well. 

Not because of a stupid pile on boring KAZ

brucewayne007

@Jens_KF

Sorry I’m spamming your page with ideas. 

Topic close to me heart

Paste

brucewayne007 said:

Sorry to disagree with here. 

But hear me out. 

The kill tough walkers is a welcomed edition. Something new, fun

and can be a cool challenge at a tough level. 

I think we have some hard missions available. It all comes down to the map layout. 

You clearly haven't played many of them then. I'm surprised more people haven't complained about them, but they will and I'm sure NG will fix them soon. It's just too recent of an addition for people to have bothered to form an angry mob yet.

"New and fun" doesn't have to mean the poor sob who enables the rest of the guild to play hard sectors has to use a whole bunch of tools and gold for healing.

brucewayne007

Paste said:

brucewayne007 said:

Sorry to disagree with here. 

But hear me out. 

The kill tough walkers is a welcomed edition. Something new, fun

and can be a cool challenge at a tough level. 

I think we have some hard missions available. It all comes down to the map layout. 

You clearly haven't played many of them then. I'm surprised more people haven't complained about them, but they will and I'm sure NG will fix them soon. It's just too recent of an addition for people to have bothered to form an angry mob yet.

"New and fun" doesn't have to mean the poor sob who enables the rest of the guild to play hard sectors has to use a whole bunch of tools and gold for healing.

Mate, you clearly don’t know what I’m playing in Guild wars. 

If you think I have an easy route of missions. You are clearly mistaken!!! 

As well as a couple others in my team , I’m 1 of the poor SOB’s that get the shit of the shit missions to play in order for the team score to do well. 

So please don’t assume I’m some pleb haha. 

I still stand by that I enjoy the fact they are a new addition to the game. And I enjoy something different. 

Just like fast walkers. Even tho they are difficult. 

I enjoy the new aspect. 

Paste

brucewayne007 said:

So please don’t assume I’m some pleb haha. 

I never said that. I said you can't have played many KTTW missions. Their balance is a joke.

n00b

Either remove KAW or just make it so any duplicate swords used on the same map rewards 0 VP.

KAWs will still make a huge difference, let's say on day 1 team A gets 5 KAWs on 5H/6F and team B on day 2 only gets 1. There is a higher chance that team B fails to close a sector than team A, even though team B is slightly stronger than team A.

Karajoca

Billbam said:

In my guild the KAW missions are very important in helping us decide which higher level sections we can close.  Take them away and it will immediately hurt higher but not leader board type guilds.  Also players love to be able to get together near the end of the battle to use their spare attacks by piling into the KAW maps.  Again this isn't all about top 10 teams, leave something for other teams to enjoy.

I agree, but do you realise this is topic about openning whole map to be seen from beginning?
Every single map open from 1st minute and you can pile on them whenever you want. Your guild was doing this fine enough already? Well, when sectors are open all other guilds can do it too.
Strategical aspect of this pilling is lost, GW will become pure calculation game where leaders see from beginning what is easiest to do while bringing most points. 
Without KAW there will be at least some element of surprise, you can do something opponent won't be able to predict.
I am not telling this as a member of top10 guilds you mention. It really affect us all

n00b

Paste said:

brucewayne007 said:

So please don’t assume I’m some pleb haha. 

I never said that. I said you can't have played many KTTW missions. Their balance is a joke.

They are balanced just fine, what I like about them, that they require some skill to complete them. If you compare it to other types, like get to the exit or search for clues which require more luck than skill sometimes (Just use RGG as a leader, stun everything and get to the exit) it will look just like the best balanced type of mission out there.
GW is becoming easier and easier within each update, in a guild we were very excited to score  > 600 VP before, but now, no one cares, because it takes no skill to do that (throw grenades on left and right, after spawn rebalance you can simply run to the exit at 80% of the time, do KAWs).

ATLAS-Z

@Fluxxx I think there's an opportunity here for some type of event

I don't want KAW missions to go away because I enjoy them and I enjoy the little bit of teamwork required at the end

But if all sectors were open I think they need to go because it would be all about that and nothing else

But what if occasionally you had an event, like the third week of War was open map week and on open map week there were no KAW?

At any rate I think we should try it in beta but I don't necessarily believe that it is the way forward for every week

Am I making sense?