Endless challenges...

Happy new year to all, and hope you had a nice time during holidays 😊

I don't want to bring bad news right from a start but i think it's important to tell that general feeling about challenge mode is really depressing and i witnessed many conversation where people are announcing retirement and moving on from game.

As much as some enjoy their new PBs, they soon realize that they are actually falling behind even more to others who have more time and gold.
@Fluxxx, i think you really did a lot for community since coming here and i can't thank you enough for listening to us and grant most of requests players have asked in past year.
But maybe we asked for too much and made game too easy...

I really hope there is a solution coming and is set as priority for next update to fix the endless challenges. If there is, i would like it announced ASAP before a huge amount of old school players sail to retirement and don't wait for changes,with me among them.
From a strategy game, careful positioning, spawn blocking, badging survivors to be able to take hit, we came to the point that none of it is important and most of maps can be played badgeless, just stun/root, wait them to burnout, etc.

Maybe is just me, maybe after 4 years i have nothing else to achieve, but i think i am sharing opinion of hundreds of players with this post.

Thanks for listening, and good luck in next GW season, hope at least those maps are still "challenging" enough, and require some real strategy
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Comments

  • WellyLuga
    WellyLuga Member Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    Why does the challenge have to keep rolling on and on and on? Why can't there be a physical end? I think the challenge could be given a complete revamp with an emphasis placed more on how you perform in the missions rather than the amount you do. If the challenge stopped at 54.2 then it would matter how you played in all of the missions leading up to it, the players who were skillful enough to get 3* in maps others can only get 1-2* would be rewarded. Maybe increase it so you earned 4* if you cleared the map without injury and without using tools. Maybe have bonus stars awarded for using specific teams as an extra challenge. If everyone at the top got to the same point every week then all would have the same round passes, skill would show. I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out there.

    I think every single challenge set needs looking at and the hardest maps need tweaking to make it so that it's a show stopper. Nightly visitors is the only map that I think of that still has that fear factor, where I'm not sure it's even possible at super nightmare mode. Knee deep used to be but now there's a glitch where you can use Daryl in lead and just sprint to the finish if you play it right.
  • FreeToPlay
    FreeToPlay Member Posts: 36
    Apart from this problem there are many more. One of them, which in principle was a help to the community, is now a real problem, the YouTube videos. People watch them and all they do is copy over and over the strategies of the videos. They spend on gasoline and gold and... the first of the clan.
    In the NW I followed up and as soon as the good players started posting the videos, the stars of the rest of the players began to rise. It was very striking as the good players kept their strategies and only showed them at the end.
  • JayZ
    JayZ Member Posts: 3,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Snarky comment aside, here’s what I would suggest:

    I really like @WellyLuga’s suggestion of adding an extra star for playing tool-free. It would definitely help distinguish skill a bit more. Tools have made some previously near-impossible missions so easy (see The Locker last week), so rewarding clean play makes a lot of sense. It seems like a win-win: If you use a tool to beat a map, you can still get farther than you did before. But more skilled players playing tool-free will earn more stars (only up to 6 per round so not game-breaking).

    We’ve talked about this before, but there needs to be significantly less variability in nightmare and super nightmare modes. So much of it is luck/spawn dependent that it becomes more about burning gold to get the right setup than skill to actually beat the map.

    Nightmare mode should have 25% fatties spawn, 25% armored, 50% normal. Super Nightmare should be 50% fatties and 50% armored. Maybe even add another round after that which includes 50% fatties, 25% armored, and 25% spikes.

    Everyone gets the same spawns, and it equalizes the playing field and makes it more about skill than retrying/luck. Also creates a pretty natural stopping point.
    Proud member of Mavericks OG, a top 3 global GW and challenge guild.
    Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.

    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGSePrANMyf_S_YKJyfJodg
    Strategy compendium: https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/41787/jayzs-nml-strategy-compendium
  • FreeToPlay
    FreeToPlay Member Posts: 36
    @JayZI didn't say that and you know it. Take the test ... do not post videos the week that there is no GW and you will see the results (Do not post videos yourself and the rest of the great users). Your work in this community is great but the problem I say is real.

    Here I leave several proposals:
    1.- No Heroes LeaderBoards - The same challenge but without using heroes, only normal chars, the people who want to play that challenge can do it. We will see how many stars are made.
    2.- Random Challenges - Change maps each time a round is finished.

  • Nanajja
    Nanajja Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    jayz  please don’t stop sharing . You should actually be compensated for your efforts! Greatly appreciate all I have learned from your posts & videos. Not sure how anyone can copy your skill by watching a video given it isn’t a one size fits all with level, weapon, trait, badges, setup, & ability . It’s simply helpful & enjoyable to watch how pros do it. Sure there are good tips to be had but we still have to put are own thought and effort in to succeed in a battle. My game and love for game has definitely improved from your insight and a few other end gamers advice. Thank you for all your insight, I pay it forward by passing it along in my guild. I don’t care who in my guild is top scorer by doing so. Knowledge is power, United we stand divided we fall ! Team success is all success. It gives stronger opponents to face and build NG community. Please keep posting!
  • Anjelos
    Anjelos Member Posts: 73
    With all respect to all video makers for their effort/time  , I agree with FreeToPlay.
    It's we, the players , that actually making the game too easy.but maybe I am wrong indeed.
    I would suggest two weeks without videos from everyone and see how that will go :) 
    Or just share low lvl videos , I guess people that can actually reach nightmare/mission impossible mode ,can do that without video.
    And seriously I really value the effort of ppl making videos(myself included) , but , if everybody knows exactly how to pass a mission , then it comes to money / tools /time only. 
    I think it t will raise the difficulty. 
    At least that's my feeling all this time now.
  • Drunken
    Drunken Member Posts: 1,719
    @Anjelos I think y’all should write YouTube and have them take down every single NML video to during this two weeks. Because a google search is just as easy as going to line each week
  • Anjelos
    Anjelos Member Posts: 73
    @Drunken i am not against it , and to be honest i have no problem with endless challenges as well.i like to play either i make 2k or 12k . I like the game and if i have time i play as much possible.
    I just say , its the main reason many ppl play so high and find the game easy.
    Offcrs its easy , if everybody knows where to block spawn , which character to use and where to move ,which equipment they should use, even more , where tool is needed or not .
    It becomes too easy indeed , and while for like 50-100 players that comes by searching/thinking analyzing , trying and retrying , to the majority it comes like chewed food ,and then they complain . 
    What i sayed for couple weeks , was like an experiment proposal .
    If ng doesn't make somthing to change (and i doubt that they can without having a very negatve effect),we as a community should try to help game not to die.
  • Drunken
    Drunken Member Posts: 1,719
    @Anjelos let me know what YouTube says.

    it’s just not feasible. That being said I agree there needs to be an end, but trying to block players from sharing videos just isn’t feasible 
  • ScottyJ
    ScottyJ Member Posts: 37
         The extra star for no tools is a great idea. 
    If the idea of having an End is a go, you could even award stars for completing missions first try.  So those who are passing missions on first attempts and without tools will surpass gold spenders using tools and needing lots of gold for healing.  
    It certainly would reflect skill in the leaderboards a little more rather than cash spent being the obvious measure of stars.
    That said I'm nowhere near the endgame so it really makes no difference to me! 
    I'm not sure NG will want to make changes that actually discourage the spending of money so I'd be surprised if they made the challenge have an end...

  • Drunken
    Drunken Member Posts: 1,719
    How is an extra star any good in an endless challenge. 
  • NerfZone187
    NerfZone187 Member Posts: 788
    edited January 2021
    I don't like quitters.....

    Unless they're quitting mobile slot machines disguised as strategy games.

    Ask @Troublemaker he knows
  • NerfZone187
    NerfZone187 Member Posts: 788
    Apart from this problem there are many more. One of them, which in principle was a help to the community, is now a real problem, the YouTube videos. People watch them and all they do is copy over and over the strategies of the videos. They spend on gasoline and gold and... the first of the clan.
    In the NW I followed up and as soon as the good players started posting the videos, the stars of the rest of the players began to rise. It was very striking as the good players kept their strategies and only showed them at the end.
    This sounds like a really cool story. How does it end?
  • FreeToPlay
    FreeToPlay Member Posts: 36
    It is the endless story, it is a great novel, it also has a movie for all audiences, you can see it...
  • JordanYuki
    JordanYuki Member Posts: 716 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMO there’s just no positive feelings to playing a “challenge” that is to easy or to luck reliant. It’s like beating a boss in Mario Bros and beating a boss in Dark Souls.. I feel way more satisfied beating a boss in Dark Souls than Mario Bros lol
  • WellyLuga
    WellyLuga Member Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    Drunken said:
    How is an extra star any good in an endless challenge. 
    In fairness it was a suggestion that was pitched after putting in an end to the challenge. Sometimes you might use a tool to get 3* on a MM so it would be 6* dropped. It would also take away the ability to get max stars by just using a medkit at the end of the map, if you were relying on tools the stars dropped would soon add up...
  • Drunken
    Drunken Member Posts: 1,719
    @WellyLuga fair point. But top player doesn’t use tools so it would be just a matter of time before others were on it. 
  • capibara
    capibara Member Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All that discussion is ridiculous
    Why a player who wants to play endless mission can't play endless missions?
    ...i feel like now some players used to be at the top are pissed because they don't want  to invest so many money to be there at the top.
    ....PLEASE EXPLAIN ME what's different from 1 year ago??
    I'm always been a f2p. ...and i never had the chance to buy gas booster and 2xp and gold to heal as the old “top players” were used to do before. So ..meanwhile my challenge was only around free gas and healing for others it was just FULL GAS, HEAL and TRY AGAIN
    ...what's the difference from tools?? ..just pissed because “some” can't buy so many tools??
    "Always be yourself unless you can be a capybara. Then always be a capybara".
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  • Troublemaker
    Troublemaker Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NG depends on NML income. They will milk it as much as possible.

    Players complain but are all burning tools, gold and money for various in-game resources while staying online 24/7.

    NG only sees data. What data are giving to them?

    Truth is NG exploits our addiction and it's the rule of the game. Accept and enjoy it or move on.

    Unfortunately.
  • Troublemaker
    Troublemaker Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The best school for NML is still Diablo 2 in my humble opinion.

    Make grinding worth it and all complaints go away. Too obvious p2w stuff like tools are kinda disrespectful to old time players in a pseudo-strategy game.
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2021
    I see both sides, but the side that makes the most $ for NGs wins I think yes?

    The challenge isn't endless

    If you've reached a nightmare mission that takes 12+ retries and tools to sneak by with 1-star, you're at the end.

    We're just upset that some people are willing to do this... 

    Over and over... and it's allowed

    #BCSbeyondtheEnd


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  • JayZ
    JayZ Member Posts: 3,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    capibara said:

    ....PLEASE EXPLAIN ME what's different from 1 year ago??
    What has changed?

    Harpoon Gun
    Decimator
    Kingdom Shield
    Shotgun weapons
    A LOT of other new gear, a lot of which is available to all players in the season campaigns.

    Shane's leader trait
    Beta's leader trait
    PGG trait rework
    All 5 new tools

    A LOT has changed in a year that makes the game too easy now. Just watch videos of challenges like In The Dead of Night now vs. 1-2 years ago.

    As new concepts gets introduced into the game, it's only reasonable to expect game modes to adjust accordingly so there is still some semblance of balance.
    Proud member of Mavericks OG, a top 3 global GW and challenge guild.
    Message me on the forums or on Line (ID: jayztwdnml) if you're interested in joining the Mavericks family of guilds.

    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGSePrANMyf_S_YKJyfJodg
    Strategy compendium: https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/41787/jayzs-nml-strategy-compendium
  • Hellnight
    Hellnight Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
    In my case I stopped publishing videos in my union because I made them as much FTP as possible so that everyone could play. Unfortunately most prefer special items and weapons to make more stars. The problem of the master missions and the nightmare distance mode increases the need for special weapons (less xp when playing fewer missions, and fewer low components to move in crafting badges, which means that reroll tokens are needed to modify them)
    We need some prize for the really skilled players, and not just for those who pay more money

  • Nanajja
    Nanajja Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    good grief lower level players aren’t idiots certainly can figure out where spawning coming from w/o video, and who to take on missions, should we not ask our teammates for recommendations either would that make it to easy? I am in awe of this discussion about videos changing the game. Imo badges, tools, new weapons, new explosive hero’s, reroll effects, and players upgrading and moving up which is inevitable is the change. NG brought so many awesome new things to kill with & make you stronger but are a little behind in balancing there tremendous use in maps which at some levels makes to easy but isn’t case for all players. Most people will figure out best strategies regardless of videos just like the players who are posting the videos did. Video posters didn’t magically figure things out that others can’t. While some challenges have loopholes like boom barrel some if u can’t kill high or have right players and traits only going so far video or not! To me this game is like chess think out your moves and PCs you do well! Can’t believe people are arguing about players helping players video or otherwise, Very cutthroat to say only doing well because someone told or showed you something in video ( sorry this hypocrisy really gets to me!) especially to go as far as contacting you tube ( I can’t imagine they wouldn’t find that request laughable) “what are ya gonna say players are getting to good at game watching just writing this sounds nuts! IMO if video helped would think players would say “glad I could help” perhaps NG should take down this forum while there at it , there is just to much good advice, and while they are at it ban players who use discord and line app because they might learn useful advice ! NOT  IMO I think some players need to take a break from game if this is what it has come to!  
  • FreeToPlay
    FreeToPlay Member Posts: 36
    I think there are big compression problems or translation problems, many of the comments are not even normal. If you don't want to see reality, I don't care ... I appreciate the work of the person who collects the data, he is a great person, but that does not mean that the rest of the players use the information correctly. This happens in all facets of life
    Nobody has said to stop posting video, it has been said that people watch and copy them do exactly the same. At first people saw them and had an idea of how to play the game, now they watch the video and repeat. It is obvious that a level 25 to 60 is only worth an example but there are levels 75 that only copy.
    In short, what has been proposed is that videos of a challenge are not published and the star drop will be verified. By the way, this already happened in the NW. What's more, it can be seen in a normal challenge, a level 75 will reach level 40-42 without videos, from there, they wait for the publication of the videos and start again.

    Do you know what is the best time to do it? When the new map game is released
  • Superhero
    Superhero Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Drunken said:
    @WellyLuga fair point. But top player doesn’t use tools so it would be just a matter of time before others were on it. 

    You mean this guy isn´t a top player?


  • Firekid
    Firekid Member Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Superhero the fact they have so many would lead me to think they don’t use them that often... 
  • Superhero
    Superhero Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Firekid said:
    @Superhero the fact they have so many would lead me to think they don’t use them that often... 

     I watched the videos. That was quite often.

  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Superhero said:
    Firekid said:
    @Superhero the fact they have so many would lead me to think they don’t use them that often... 

     I watched the videos. That was quite often.


    I used a bunch of tools last weekend but I still have a ton... It's because I don't go hardcore every week.




    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
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