Should more than 1 player be able enter a map at the same time

Karajoca

No, it ruins the experience.

You guys need to learn about evolution of stacking through history of guild wars    to better understand through what top guilds went and how this become so crazy.

I"ll add

In 1st version of GW Beta, battles were 5vs5. Points for closing sectors was weaker so top guilds quickly realised they get more points if "jump" on same big level map, and ideally it would be on "kill all walkers". You couldn't see preview of map though. So 1 player would have to enter and if map is KAW, he then scream in chat "KAW KAW KAW" and then you see people massively coming online and join  That is how it all begin. Was it fun? Hell, yeah but people were also very frustrated about this if you remember. Most of guilds faced problems with selfish people who wouldn't share their mission or would spare their attacks and wait for someone else to find the map so they can join. 
While Best guilds who are crazy active and online non-stop used this as massive advantage. 

But update came, battles turned into 10vs 10, larger map, and we get promise that stacking is no more useful. I think most of us were glad about it. Top scores were around 8000 VP and people didn't even think of doing 6H,even 6G was problematic. 

Things were changing fast. I noticed Red Machine is advancing very fast on board, was wondering what's going on until we( WW) faced derby match vs Mavs. They teach us a lesson, stacked on high level maps with almost whole team. They were just higher league at that moment.
That changed me and made me reshape our battle plans and bring coordination to perfection. We started season with scoring ~8k, ended it with 9102 VP, while doing stacking with all 10 people on 3 maps and few more, per battle. 

New season, and tools starting to move the ladder forward. Top guild started not only stacking but doing 6H occasionally, or up to 6G without fails. 
1 fail and you lose. 
then, shortly after, it wasn't anymore about having 1 fail or no -  1 stacking missed - and you lose. 
There was a remarkable match against Red Machine where i realised at one moment it will be draw. It's easy when you track opponent scores and battle coming to an end to see this.
I decided to do something crazy. Instead of predictable stacking on KAW map, i entered 47 level "go to exit". Checked it, wasn't easy(no flares back then) but doable, i recorded map and invited one other guildmate to join.
I waited long time with adding points. They didn't expect this, and we won by few pts. 
It was great experience for both guilds and we all enjoyed. I think not long passed and they had their rematch. Similar situation. Just they stacked on more unpredictable maps then we were able to.

So, here ledder went one step further. All hard sectors done + no fails + stacking with all players on KAW + little stacking on highest level, whatever it is, if you want to win.

When this become the case my guild stopped chasing for rival battles every week. As long as sometimes is fun and enjoyable when you win, battles can be long and exhausting, tracking every move of opponent, see their errors and what you need to win. I refuse to do it all the time. We just choose number of players to enter battle that suit us the most and where we know the enemy is 99% some way off our league and isn't able to organize perfectly to be a threat. Some new guilds like TheLastOfUs step in, and joined that crazy race. It was fun watching them from a side last season, but i bet it wasn't fun for them, doing perfect match and ending it as draw (twice in row). Draw = Defeat. One of the reasons i don't care about leaderboard in this mode. 

for those who want to read and see why some people  say "stacking is fun" .

As harsh as it sounds to guilds who largely improved lately after introduction of red gas and more tools coming to our stash, Mavericks, Wild Walking, The Last of Us, Red Snow, GK Crew... are in this matches from beginning, way more experienced and developed their battle plans to perfection.
You can come close, but to beat them you need some extra work. Some crazyness. Or tactics to avoid them as much as possible. 
Right now that tactics is stacking with more players and on higher levels then others can do, and if rules change in future i am still sure this guilds will again find a way  and do what is needed to dominate. 

It's why i say something like "leagues" is needed, with different rules in it, to separate hardcore guilds from others who want more casual approach. But i bet even hardcore guilds would be tired and burnout after a while if there is need for enormous stacking on maps to ensure win. 
@xbamfx @Busta @JayZ are defending the stacking tactics here. But come on, guys, you choose to play your battles mostly with teams of 7. There is no stacking in those matches, only 2 leftover swords. So about what tactics you are talking about ? We had to pull 38 jumps yesterday in our battle. All 9 players on 4 maps + 7 on 5th. No other guild can pull this out i garantee. But does that makes us special or so good ? I don't think so. Just crazier then others.
Guilds and players who complain in this thread are playing their matches with 8,9, 10 players and that make  battles a completely different story. 
Map has to be adjusted so there is no need for stacking in this large numbers, that's for sure. There are other ways that can make battles still interesting and not only about closing sectors and i talked about it before. 

I don't see myself in this game if update doesn't bring changes to both modes,challenge & GW, limit tools extravaganza and make leaderboard something worth spending ridiculous amount of time that i already spent for literally nothing.

WellyLuga

No, it ruins the experience.

@xbamfx How you hadn't noticed until now that the maps had been changed is beyond me. Are you sure you've spent this season on high levels or have you secretly been caving in skulls with Lucille?

Couldn't have put it better than Joca. I think the thing to stress is this has literally been going on for years now. Even back to the original flawed GW it was the main way to win and still is now. Very little has changed. I want to remain competitive but it really is an annoying side of the game to me, I find myself quickly logging in to join at the most awkward, inconvenient times just to do my part for the team.

I think if it's still a tool spamming, KAW stacking shit show after the next update that'll be it for me too. Like Bamf says, the burnout is real.

Burmeliinis

Yes, but change the battle map to stop it being so advantageous

So the solution to this is actually quite simple.

Increase the map size at the bottom right AND increase sector scores/decrease mission scores so that completing a hard sector is worth more than piling on a high-level KAW mission. Make it so that piling is only valuable for the leftover swords after you have closed the maximum amount of sectors.

And do something about tool use to decrease the risk of draws.

Vov

Maybe, increasing the map size but not dramatically raising the difficulties. Adding in-between 41-47 more maps, more playground for middle-class players in the guild, while adding just a few harder maps for very delicate players (because not so many of them are around). By doing so, the gap between 2 guilds in which one guild has equally strong players and the other one has weak players but also some super heavy hitters will be shortened. 

One more tip, bonus sectors should be the prize for completing specific number of sectors, i.e. completing 1 2 3 - C gives you extra damage for X class while completing 4 5 6 - B gives extra chance of not hitting body shot. With this kind of bonus, weaker players also lighten the burden that other strong players have to take. 

You raid enemy stations, besides victory points, shouldn't there be couple of more ammunition and vets for you to loot? 
@Fluxxx

xbamfx

WellyLuga said:

@xbamfx How you hadn't noticed until now that the maps had been changed is beyond me. Are you sure you've spent this season on high levels or have you secretly been caving in skulls with Lucille?

Couldn't have put it better than Joca. I think the thing to stress is this has literally been going on for years now. Even back to the original flawed GW it was the main way to win and still is now. Very little has changed. I want to remain competitive but it really is an annoying side of the game to me, I find myself quickly logging in to join at the most awkward, inconvenient times just to do my part for the team.

I think if it's still a tool spamming, KAW stacking shit show after the next update that'll be it for me too. Like Bamf says, the burnout is real.

Bro I’ve been playing these levels since the dawn of GW always the hardest sector 98% of the time so I really only notice the things that annoy me the most, for example: fast walkers. I used to breakdown every little detail but when you’ve reach 3000+ GW maps it’s all the same thing. I wonder what my win/loss ratio is haha. There was that one time I fell asleep tho and we lost a battle 😂. Life of a working man, well NG has their hands full because I feel like this game is a full time job at these elite levels, I enjoy playing GW but I sacrifice a lot of my challenge time to do so. I can’t just log in and blow out my 16 swords or whatever it is lol shows how much I even pay attention to the details anymore, I just got forward, forward, forward. Tool wars is still fun because of the simple fact every map although layout is the same, the walkers change and movements change thus making it more interesting then retry fest slot machine challenge 😂 good day to all you guys! Tremendous respect for the lot of you just ignore my tense post as frustration is mounting. Cheers 🍻 

ShadowWalker

I see a lot of people saying increase the map size by adding more sectors, but this map is already rather large. What do people think about increasing the amount of missions in each sector instead? Maybe an extra walker mission in each section so there is 12 walker maps and 4 PvP in each sector. This would mean we have to do less PvP maps per sector, which a lot of guilds find as too easy. Obviously if this is changed then the RP, and I guess the Guild Points, for completing each sector should increase.

Burmeliinis

Yes, but change the battle map to stop it being so advantageous

Ok I did a quick calculation. By increasing the sector VP for each sector with 50 points, the 4DEF line would net an average of 48.875 points per mission - with 6D averaging 52 pts/mission, while a single lvl 47 mission also gives 52 points. With a 10 man team you still have 20 swords remaining after having closed everything from 4D-6H so more sectors still need to be added to take care of this issue.

@ShadowWalker's idea of adding more missions might technically be easier, but has the problem of diluting the value of sector completion so I think adding a new line below 4G would be the best solution, and add a new level of difficulty to all teams that now breeze through 6H.

Overall this change would mean guilds would score more points so the Tiers should be adjusted accordingly (getting to Master tier is already quite easy). 

JayZ

Yes, but change the battle map to stop it being so advantageous

Here are my thoughts. As always, my thoughts are my own and doesn’t reflect that of my guild. Same with posts from my guildmates, they represent themselves but not our guild as a whole.

1. Like @Karajoca said, whatever changes, the best teams will adapt and figure out winning strategies. So whatever happens, I’m confident my guild will still compete at the top.

2. There is no suitable use for extra attacks. No change to stacking can happen unless an alternative is created.

3. I don’t particularly care for stacking one way or another. When my guild does it, we do it well and get points, but I agree it’s a pain in the ass.

4. I really like the suggestion above to simply align the incentives and increase bonus points for sector completions. It’ll reduce the incentives to stack but still allow the best and most coordinated teams to get a small differentiating boost and good use of spare attacks by stacking.

5. I’d be in favor of a 50 extra VP across the entire game map for completing sectors. And specifically, 30 points for the sector bonus and +5 points and additional RPs for each human (for a total of 20 points from humans). In the top guilds, the human killer role is not particularly glamorous, but it is so vital, and I’d like for them to get more recognition for their vital role.

Off-topic, but PLEASE give a 1.25x bonus for ties. Mavs OG and WW, the current top 2 teams in GW are going to end today with perfect scores and a totally clean run. It’s stupid that we both get penalized for achieving excellence.

[Deleted User]

Yes, it’s a great tactic.

JayZ said:

Off-topic, but PLEASE give a 1.25x bonus for ties. Mavs OG and WW, the current top 2 teams in GW are going to end today with perfect scores and a totally clean run. It’s stupid that we both get penalized for achieving excellence.

but you unlock Red Gas achievement so it's enough I'm think

Karajoca

No, it ruins the experience.

I think we reached very constructive conclusion and @JayZ summed it up nice.
I am sure @Fluxxx is reading and i wonder what he thinks about all this. 

Being able to join same map to stay but with adding new sectors and little boost for completing them it will be less need for this tactics and it's a reasonable solution. 

We came to this point because GW is simple calculation game. I hate that i am able to track opponent and know their every move! I hate, because if i spent this much time calculating while being at school i would have much bigger salary and now wouldn't waste time on playing mobile games     

And please try to make hero of the week or something in similar form to work here. It would be brand new tactics, battles unpredictable and almost impossible to track enemy moves!

xbamfx

So I read over this entire topic yesterday, frustrated and wondering what could we do to make things better for all parties. So, I grabbed my bottle of whiskey as I normally do when I need a moment of clarity. After long thought about stacking and not stacking, ties and all other issues with GW I thought it was time to give it some serious thought. Some feel stacking is cheap, some feel it’s a great tactic. We all know ties have been more prevalent now with tools and routes laid out. It’s kind of taken away the suspense of GW and not knowing what could happen when two guilds faced off. I wondered how could we resolve this issue and still keep all happy with the outcome. 

It finally dawned on me what if 3 more mission were made available to each player as a bonus and costs 1 red gas each to play. These bonus mission would be dependent on the highest rsl that player has ever completed and would progress by 1. For example me 6H I played rsl47 play so I would get 1st bonus mission 48 followed by 49 and finally 50. These missions would NOT be replay-able. If you fail you get no bonus points and these missions would be worth more Rps as they are much more dangerous and tougher to complete. Loss results in half RP since you did sacrifice resources ie red gas and obviously gold since you got your ass whooped 😂. To further add to this mayhem I’d like to also suggest that if all members of your team finish 1st bonus mission of their tier they are awarded an additional War Lord bonus of X amount of VPs. This would also take effect for tier 2 bonus if all complete and tier 3 for those who think they can top their max difficulty as an entire team. 

Since I had my thinking cap on at the time, my mind started to click. So with that being said I thought of diff type of walkers that could be introduced that have actually existed in TWD universe, so I present the Radioactive Walker! These would replace all fast walkers in NML. Their powers are presented in a circular pattern present in the Shane shotgun special attack (similar radius) the closer these walkers get to you the more they affect you! So it’s super important to target them early and often. Maybe they have on hazmat suits? Or maybe regular dressed who knows? Their circular radius makes your survivor sick and slows your movement for 1 turn so kill them and get back ASAP! Exploding them can prove deadly if they are too close as their explosion can affect you with radiation poisoning damage, maybe with balancing a small percent of damage from poisoning can also be present in their damage radius as they move toward you. 

Finally I would like to introduce a new tool, The claymore trap. Set this trap to cover your retreat  or to punish incoming freemen or GW raiders. Attack spread is similar to the festive shotgun range Fan. The base damage is 33% damage followed by bleeding. 

I would love to hear what you all think about my suggestions, please feel free to comment with your honest feelings. 

Firekid

No, it ruins the experience.

Probably best to comment on its thread though. https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/46468/gw-suggestion-plz-read-and-comment-ty-%EF%B8%8F#latest

To keep it all in one place and keep this thread on topic.