Rent-A-Tool Option

Karajoca
Karajoca Member Posts: 354
Dear @Fluxxx , i read somewhere that you said how Guild Wars are your most competitive game mode and how is important for you to keep that competitive integrity. Let me tell you, to be competitive in this mode you need to pay a solid amount of money. It's a fact, and i understand that is , of course, very important to keep game profitable so i don't expect to give us anything more for free, but after new map introduction ( Which i really like and it fixed a lot of problems guilds were facing)  things will escalate and go too far when comes to pay to win in this game.
Some balance need to be made, paying is ok, until some point, but can't let players/guilds to simply buy their win with investing ridiculous amount of money that majority of this community cannot afford. That way, you will have only few "competitive" guilds who are ready to pay, while others can just watch from a side, being smashed in battles, morale drops, excitement is no more, until when ? ... until slowly everyone quit . Because that's what you do when you can't keep up and fulfill your ambition. 

I am telling you all this while coming from one of the biggest guilds in game, and probably one of the wealthiest. Our position on the leaderboards isn't endangered, in fact with this new map we highly profit i think. But doesn't make me happy and doesn't motivate me, when something is easy. I want new challenge, want to have equal playing field, want to give chance to other guilds to reach the top. 

You know already that i asked multiple times to add a restrictions when comes to tool usage in battles. I found that important and think it would push players to become better or make guilds develop a strategy of how to smartly use them. But i understand it's a touchy subject, and not everyone agree on this. Something still need to be done, current price of 50 gold for 1 tool was maybe ok before when need for those wasn't much important. But now with this huge map and bigger difficulties, to put your best game in battle you need crazy amount of them. 
So i came to idea...

Comments

  • Burmeliinis
    Burmeliinis Member Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting idea. Not sure I like it, though. I still think limiting tool use (in GW) would be the best solution and clearly this is still a pay-to-win option, although probably less than the current system. One thing is that this could force guild members to spend money even if they didn't want to. Let's say you are mostly F2P, you have signed up for a battle, and you get a tough opponent that you can win only by buying this tool bundle. Everyone else in the guild is going for it, so you can't let the others down and buy the required gold for $$$. 

    I think if something like this is done, it should be for the whole battle so that you aren't forced to pay hundreds of gold on healing.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • Firekid
    Firekid Member Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Being able to craft less powerful but still useful tools via grinding is still my favourite option for this, allows FTP players who are used to grinding get a bit of a leg up and close that P2P gap. Both these ideas although do help a bit still rely on relatively big amounts of gold. 
    I agree though that something needs to be done. 
  • mir
    mir Member Posts: 228
    4 weeks of war. 2 wars with tools, 2 without tools. The season is over. It'll be fun that way, too.  I don't want to constantly buy tools and build the tactics of the game in the war - around the tools. In fact, you are forcing us to do this.  This is the hell of the eighth Beta, make it look like this, and not just the inscription! Thanks.  I almost forgot. Black Market-should be a black market, not a supermarket with a tasting.
  • n00b
    n00b Member Posts: 79
    The community can agree not to use tools at GW during the last 2 weeks of wars or sign petition again . There have been countless suggestions on how to fix it, but nothing was done so far.
  • Daiiko
    Daiiko Member Posts: 148
    @Karajoca je suis de tout cœur avec toi, bien parlé! Faire aussi un temps de guérison individuel entre GW et DÉFIS comme pour le mode DISTANCE.
    Il y a des Guildes que mon équipe arrivait à battre de 6 voit 7 points, et aujourd'hui il sont capable de nous mettre 200 points de différence (merci les gadgets). Il faut tout simplement éradiquer les tools du monde de GW
  • WellyLuga
    WellyLuga Member Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2021
    I don't blame NG, it is the players fault for playing right into their hands. They set us up and we fell right for it, they created a demand and then really hammered it home. After adding all of the new tools the only logical thing to happen next was to make the missions even harder. There will be new more powerful tools further down the line and then it will just lead to another bump in the mission level, the cycle will continue. Dangle that carrot and enough people will chase it. 

    NG must care about the integrity and competitiveness of the game though, otherwise they wouldn't have removed the randomness from the challenge and put an end to it. That must have put a dent in gold sales but was a big plus to protect the game going forward and to reinvigorate a stale game mode. Seeing endless challenges and people paying vast amounts of gold to score 10k* and up I would sit there and after a certain point in the challenge I would stop and think, why bother? I feel like I'm wasting my time talking about the tool situation to be honest but it is just a shame as if you take tools out of the equation GW is a true reflection of skill and you were rewarded for being good at the game. Now though, any mediocre player can open their wallet and move straight to the top. I don't know what the solution is but I agree, something should be done or else it will just be run into the ground as another cash grab P2W game. The suggestion is good though, but shelling out 500/1k/2k gold for a battle is steep.
  • Mario_Romero
    Mario_Romero Member Posts: 218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And what are we playing for really?

    For the honour of finishing on a meaningless leaderboard.

    The prizes are poor and the prices of said prizes are way too high.

    Someone made a thread "these are the worst prizes ever". He was joking, but he is right.

    Shane's buckshot??? Really? The one we have hardly ever gets used. GW shop should have at least one and actually 2 top tier weapons for all the gold and tools spent.

    And with the prices of tools you're basically playing half a season to be able to buy the tools to to compete the second half of the season.

    And offerering more availability for again a hefty gold donation is no solution if you ask me.

    There are other ways. I hade high hopes for black market but it's ended up just another cash grab. Charging a king's ransom in gold cost for anything worthwhile in there.

    Current GW map, though flawed, at least gave smaller guilds a chance to close the gap, after all there is only one 6H. Now there are multiple. As many as your pockets will allow.
    So again, the rich get richer.

    It seems to me NG is catering solely to a very small group of whales with these changes to the map. Or they never really thought very hard of the implications of what they are doing.

    Either is possible really...
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @WellyLuga i can't help but feel with "any mediocre player" you had someone in mind? 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
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    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So again, the rich get richer.
    ...
    Wouldn't this be... The Rich getting poorer?
     :D 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • WellyLuga
    WellyLuga Member Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ATLAS-Z said:
    @WellyLuga i can't help but feel with "any mediocre player" you had someone in mind? 
    Wasn't directed at anyone, just the way I feel about tools. You don't really have to be that good at the game these days, just be able to afford a plethora of them. Flares especially.
  • Angelspit
    Angelspit Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    Oh yes, I remember that episode where Michonne and Daryl were out scavenging, but then decided to drop by The Home Depot to rent some tools. Man, that was a blast!
    In Game: Fives
  • NerfZone187
    NerfZone187 Member Posts: 788
    If you are wanting to rent a tool my price is $99.99 an hour
  • Rohlikzauchem
    Rohlikzauchem Member Posts: 108
    ATLAS-Z said:
    @WellyLuga i can't help but feel with "any mediocre player" you had someone in mind? 
    I would say I am mediocre player. No tools let me barely close 6G with full concentration. Loaded with tools doing 6H and keep answering my wife while playing with kid. Thats what tools does. 
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Rohlikzauchem I think perhaps you are too modest


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • Karajoca
    Karajoca Member Posts: 354
    Ok, thanks everyone who responded

    So as much as i do agree about limitation of this feature , it's a really touchy subject and there are many different opinions about this, not everyone will agree it's good.

    Other thing that is mentioned here is crafting/scavenging tools. Probably the best when comes to player interest but have to be fair and question is this realistic option for NG from financial view. Number of spent time in game would increase, people would scavenge, but it's only a matter of time when we gather enough big stash that we don't need to do it anymore, nor buy
    All this happen because NG let us HOARD all of their resources. Reinforcement, reroll tokens, phones, components...every resource they add to game, as much is important at beginning, become less and less needed with time. Their newest and most profitable addition currently are tools, and they need to be careful how to continue with this and still making profit. 

    Meanwhile, players are upset and tension is rising. I am sure new GW map will add even more complaints when comes to amount of tools available and especially about their prices.
    I just hope something is done about it, idea from this thread is just one more option for them to consider. Some compromise needs to be made, to satisfy both sides
  • aquila
    aquila Member Posts: 227
    I have another suggestion.  Every tool used is -2 victory points.
    So if you do the mission without tools,  you take 52 points.  With 5 tools it's 42 points. 
    Skill is rewarded,  tool buyers are free, everyone happy 😅 
  • Burmeliinis
    Burmeliinis Member Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think that is a great idea and proposed exactly that some time ago but people were really up in arms about it. The main motivation was that you should not be punished for something you paid for, but with the new map you can easily go up in difficulty with tools and still earn more points (especially if it's -1 per tool, -2 would be too much). Also, you could still use them without penalty in the Challenge. 
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • m4s
    m4s Member Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Better call this mode GOD MODE total cost 500gold 😱 , immortal and untouchable and tools od unlmited and The final 6H map You are ale to beat this map tank M1 Abrams.....


    The Expendables - Polska gildia
  • paeaeaesch
    paeaeaesch Member Posts: 86 ✭✭✭
    I think there should be a two weeks break between every war. So players can restock tools with distance and stuff, which closes the gap between F2P and P2P.

    Another, even bigger benefit is that players don't lose interest in GW, because it remains something special.
    Let's be honest, for very much players GW is just another grind, the rewards are not worth the time and effort that is invested. So they only play it to not let the guild down. But for how long will this work?
  • ScottyJ
    ScottyJ Member Posts: 37
    When it went from 2 tools to 5 tools, and accessibility to tools was increased with the black market things really went towards pay to play. Well at least if you wanted to be at the top. Now with even more difficult maps available in guild wars and more of them,  any guild who wants to compete at the top will be tossing an absurd amount of tools. Where there used to be a couple of team members challenging the toughest maps there will be more players needing to do it to get close to that top score.  And NG will be lining their pockets big time. I don't know what the solution is but, while I thought the introduction of tools was cool its definitely a necessity to have as many as possible to compete at the highest level. 
  • brucewayne007
    brucewayne007 Member Posts: 651 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We need to make tools more viable to people that doesn’t want to use 100 gold for 2 flares example. 
    And give us more opportunities to gain gold. 
    I’ve been trying. But it’s very poor
  • Burmeliinis
    Burmeliinis Member Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Giving more tools more cheaply will only make things worse. Top spenders can spam tools left and right and will suddenly do the lvl 49 sectors routinely. To which the community will respond by asking for more difficult missions, which again will cause demands for even more tools. And with more and cheap tools you can also blast your through the Challenge and Nightmare Distance without too much trouble.

    This is not the way to go. I think the by far best and easiest solution is to restrict the amount of tools in GW to a fixed amount per battle (for example 18). This way you can use a lot on those few "harder than expected" missions but you can't take on a huge amount of missions far above your real ability.

    I also see a real problem now popping up from the low-level exploiters. A flat badged lvl 12 team will have a huge advantage over fully upgraded lvl 28 heroes. Something should be done about this. My suggestion is to convert all flat badges to % badges. This would solve this issue perfectly!
    Ingame username: Jubjab
  • m4s
    m4s Member Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some players still play at 19 level and flat badges
    The Expendables - Polska gildia
  • WellyLuga
    WellyLuga Member Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2021
    Giving more tools more cheaply will only make things worse. Top spenders can spam tools left and right and will suddenly do the lvl 49 sectors routinely. To which the community will respond by asking for more difficult missions, which again will cause demands for even more tools. And with more and cheap tools you can also blast your through the Challenge and Nightmare Distance without too much trouble.

    This is not the way to go. I think the by far best and easiest solution is to restrict the amount of tools in GW to a fixed amount per battle (for example 18). This way you can use a lot on those few "harder than expected" missions but you can't take on a huge amount of missions far above your real ability.

    I also see a real problem now popping up from the low-level exploiters. A flat badged lvl 12 team will have a huge advantage over fully upgraded lvl 28 heroes. Something should be done about this. My suggestion is to convert all flat badges to % badges. This would solve this issue perfectly!
    You are wasting your time and effort calling for a tool restriction, that much is obvious :lol:. It just won't happen, there are too many players who enjoy throwing money at NG using tools in missions. The amount of money they must be making must be very profitable to them so unless there are full scale rioting from the community calling for it, it will never happen. It wouldn't be good for business, I am sure whilst the money is coming in they will continue down this road and reap the rewards. 

    I guess I have been playing this game for too long so maybe I'm having a hard time accepting the new direction the game is heading but I like the core mechanics, classes and strategies that come with the game. Playing missions and using your main three survivors to navigate the map and control things that way. I really like using Sasha, bruiser and assault in GW because it is enjoyable to me having 3 different survivors with varying roles to manage the walkers. Don't get me wrong, they are fun to use and I like them but there is too much of a dependency on tools now to the point that it has become the main strategy and most missions are managed by what tools you have available and the cooldown...

    I agree on the flat badges issue, I know it will hurt some members of the community - one who does a lot for us with GW spreadsheets. I won't lie though, when you see videos of players walking through 6H type maps with level 13 Daryl and 2 chainsaw wielding warriors like it is nothing it makes me think why I even bother struggling through them with my maxed team.