Suggestion: Critical Chance badge buff

JayZ

Critical Chance badges should not only boost Critical Chance, but also offer the percentage same buff to reduce Body Shots. For example, if you have a badge that adds +15% CC, it should also reduce the chance that your attack will result in a Body Shot by 15%.

Logically, this makes sense: You can only get a Critical Hit on a charged attack (guaranteed) or on non-body shot attacks. So, if Critical Chance badges also boost Razor/Piercing, it would actually make them useful.

With the upcoming nerf to Power Strike's CC chances, melee is going to fall even farther behind the SPY team. Boosting CC badges isn't going to make melee teams better than SPY, but it will at least introduce some more options.

ShadowWalker

I like the idea but I am not sure it should be the same percentage. That would make it perhaps too easy to reach 100% non-body shot, and reach max CC at 90% practically making every attack a critical hit.

Maybe it would be be more balanced if it was a flat rate depending on rarity?

So maybe common badges would reduce the chance of body shots by 3% (9% total if equipped with 3), uncommon 6% (18%), rare 9% (27%), epic 12% (36%), legendary 15% (45%).

Also, as a side note is really a nerf to PS if in the description it states that you are suppose to get the bonuses when you don't move? I was never even aware of this pleasant glitch, certainly makes me wonder what other secrets I'm missing out on 👀 

ATLAS-Z

Hey that's even better than my suggestion here:

https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/389115#Comment_389115

I'll take any improvement on crit chance

JayZ

ShadowWalker said:

I like the idea but I am not sure it should be the same percentage. That would make it perhaps too easy to reach 100% non-body shot, and reach max CC at 90% practically making every attack a critical hit.

Maybe it would be be more balanced if it was a flat rate depending on rarity?

So maybe common badges would reduce the chance of body shots by 3% (9% total if equipped with 3), uncommon 6% (18%), rare 9% (27%), epic 12% (36%), legendary 15% (45%).

Also, as a side note is really a nerf to PS if in the description it states that you are suppose to get the bonuses when you don't move? I was never even aware of this pleasant glitch, certainly makes me wonder what other secrets I'm missing out on 👀 

Well, even if you could reach 100%, what's the impact? If you add 2 CC badges, that takes away from 2 other badges. So even though you are increasing the chances of Piercing/non body shots, you are taking away from potential damage from Scouts/Warriors, or taking away from Health/DR on Bruisers. In any case, it's hard to imagine how this would be any more gamebreaking than SPY, and it allows for strategies that don't just rely on charge points.

ShadowWalker

JayZ said:

ShadowWalker said:

I like the idea but I am not sure it should be the same percentage. That would make it perhaps too easy to reach 100% non-body shot, and reach max CC at 90% practically making every attack a critical hit.

Maybe it would be be more balanced if it was a flat rate depending on rarity?

So maybe common badges would reduce the chance of body shots by 3% (9% total if equipped with 3), uncommon 6% (18%), rare 9% (27%), epic 12% (36%), legendary 15% (45%).

Also, as a side note is really a nerf to PS if in the description it states that you are suppose to get the bonuses when you don't move? I was never even aware of this pleasant glitch, certainly makes me wonder what other secrets I'm missing out on 👀 

Well, even if you could reach 100%, what's the impact? If you add 2 CC badges, that takes away from 2 other badges. So even though you are increasing the chances of Piercing/non body shots, you are taking away from potential damage from Scouts/Warriors, or taking away from Health/DR on Bruisers. In any case, it's hard to imagine how this would be any more gamebreaking than SPY, and it allows for strategies that don't just rely on charge points.

Well the impact would be that you can basically kill level 40+ walkers in 2-3 hits. 


I tested this warrior out to see what kind of critical damage she could do. With Razor and those badges she would pretty much reach 100% non body shot and almost 90% CC if we follow your suggestion. Using the Dragon's Tongue she was doing 30,000+ damage on critical attacks, over 40,000+ when prowling. With the chainsaw she was reaching a max of 70,000 damage when prowling, since chainsaws attacks twice that would be up to 140,000 damage while prowling. That's enough to kill a lv 47 walker in one prowl. Keep in mind she only has epic damage badges, and doesn't have strong, and my Daryl's LT is at lv 7. This basically drops the difficulty of a level by 10. Again I do like the idea, but I think it's a little too much to match body shot reduction to the CC%. 

ATLAS-Z

I think it's brilliant actually, it puts control of the body shot back into the player's hand so if you want to work with it or work without it it's your choice build your team's how you want

If you want to use spy obviously you need body shots so no CC no piercing

If you want your bruisers to stun every turn you're going to have to sacrifice some of that health

I like it

brucewayne007

This is how CC should of worked when introduced. 

dalmer

What a brilliant idea!
Give set of this badges to Princess holding Bulldozer shotgun and you do not need to use tools any more.
Bunch of fatties, spiked and metalheads lvl 100? Hold my beer.

Firekid

I like shadow walkers balanced approach even if they capped non bodyshots at 90% in line with crit chance. Could even make alpha useful again with her inherent boost to piercing. Come on @Lexia let’s make other teams than spy great again. 

euchid

A Critical Chance badge needs to do something on a charged attack, maybe a 2nd attack.

JediMasterYoda

@JayZ
I just read above, I didn't know about Power Strike being nerfed. Do you have the details and are there any other traits being nerfed? Thanks. 

JediMasterYoda, self-deposed leader, GutsAndGlory 

zbot

@JediMasterYoda this was a bug since the beginning where it worked all the time, it’s finally being fixed.

From the update notes.

• Fixed unintended issue where the Power Strike trait increased Critical chance at all times, instead of only when a survivor hasn’t moved.

ADPaq

Given this bug really hasn't had a huge impact, and certainly not a negative impact, on the game, wouldn't it make more sense to leave it as is and instead update the text description of the trait?

It feels like this is just going to unnecessarily weaken melee for no particular reason.

WellyLuga

I don't think you can call something a nerf if it was working in a way where it wasn't supposed to and is now being fixed. Just saying . I don't think it's going to change things an awful lot since PS gives a pretty meaty bump to CC when it is of a high enough level, besides the main use is the damage boost for charge attacks.

I think CC also reducing body shot chances directly is a little bit too high, as mentioned it would be way too easy to get to near guaranteed non body shot. What if it worked similar to lucky in that it boosted by that percentage? Lets say you have gold razor and 1x 25% CC badge. 45% * 1.25 = 56.25%. 

I think it would be a nice option for a non hero bruiser too. With heroes the main 4 traits are non-negotiable but for non hero bruisers you have the spare spot for iron skin. With 2 strong DR badges and IS you could max and then have the space for a CC badge to give them an advantage over the others.

All that said, it won't change anything with regards to the dominance of the SPY team. I can't imagine anything overtaking that anytime soon, not in any way that isn't gamebreaking.

zeeblack

I have a number of CC badges and all of them are gathering dust

@JayZ idea coupled with @WellyLuga suggestion i.e. I think CC also reducing body shot chances directly is a little bit too high, as mentioned it would be way too easy to get to near guaranteed non body shot. What if it worked similar to lucky in that it boosted by that percentage? Lets say you have gold razor and 1x 25% CC badge. 45% * 1.25 = 56.25%. makes its a workable solution

If NG is still worried, place a cap like the ones placed on DR and SR

JayZ

I worry that Wes's suggestion is too complicated for most players to understand. Many players still don't know how Lucky works...

Put an 80% cap on it, but Melee really needs some kind of a buff.

WellyLuga said:

I don't think you can call something a nerf if it was working in a way where it wasn't supposed to and is now being fixed. Just saying . I don't think it's going to change things an awful lot since PS gives a pretty meaty bump to CC when it is of a high enough level, besides the main use is the damage boost for charge attacks.

You might think this now, but the PS "bug" basically doubles your chances of a Critical Hit when prowling which makes a pretty huge difference in damage over the course of several rounds.

Firekid

It’s also a massive nerf to warriors using morning stars with their non bodyshot on target. That extra 40% chance of critical hit was incredibly useful. Wait for the cries of “they’ve nerfed beta, he used to take out 46’s in one now he doesn’t kill 39’s” 

Burmeliinis

Yes this is especially painful for Huntsman Daryl, who relies on prowling. Basically this most probably means you have to switch from a Beta + HDaryl + some other hero team to SPY several levels earlier than now. So I fully support the idea of buffing CC badges.

An added bonus would be that people would need to start crafting badges again. 

ATLAS-Z

Man I was wondering why all you guys and insisted on putting power strike on Huntsman Daryl but it makes sense now. I have more than enough tokens saved up but I guess I won't bother now LOL

WellyLuga

Gotcha, so now prowling will be crits just 10-12% instead of 50% even though attacks were done on the move? 

It is really quite funny the back and forth between melee. I wonder if there will ever be a true balance between the classes. Every year it seems to be one and then back to the other

Like I said, SPY is so damn powerful that whatever is done to melee to bring it back up match it will probably be gamebreaking. 

ATLAS-Z

Well the configuration mechanics for nightmare, super nightmare, super extreme nightmare that reduces the number of rounds on Threat Counter and increases the number that will spawn is really what takes melee off the table in challenge, coupled with the massive health of enemies. 

Melee has no chance in most of these mission scenarios. 

Perhaps, on some missions, there's a way to increase the nightmare difficulty without this bloated spawn counter?

Ideas welcome. 

ATLAS-Z

Also transparency in guild wars whether you will face Body Piles or Spawn Counter would make many players bring melee on certain missions instead of SPY, I think. 

WellyLuga

ATLAS-Z said:

Also transparency in guild wars whether you will face Body Piles or Spawn Counter would make many players bring melee on certain missions instead of SPY, I think. 

SFC/KTTW = Threat counter
Kill and Exit = Autospawns
KAW is obviously KAW.

That's what I think it should be fixed to. You could add a new mission type like open the gate and get out, increase the turns required a little and have this be autospawns to even it out. I fear this is a little off topic though.

FuriousMoldovan

Agree with both needed CC badges change (now they are pretty much useless) and with spawns transparency in GW.

SFC with pile spawns is a train-sized pain in the ass, should be a Threat counter only. It's challenging enough to have to open all 5 crates (if unlucky).

ShadowWalker

I'm going to change my mind and say matching it 1 to 1 is fine. My main problem with it was the potential to get critical hits on practically every hit, making the game to easy, but the simple solution to that is to lower the max CC% from 90%. Even if it gets capped at somewhere around 50%-60% that would still be higher than 90% of Razor or Piercing.

I agree with @ATLAS-Z, letting players decide if they want to go full 100% non-body shot or not is a good thing. It makes the game less of an "interactive jackpot machine" by removing some elements of chance. Also, If you can keep everything stunned with SPY, then being able to stun 3 enemies with a bruiser isn't groundbreaking, and if you can "interrupt" with a cripple weapon, then why shouldn't we be able reach 100% non body shot and get a 100% to use Interrupt as well?

ATLAS-Z

JayZ said:

With the upcoming nerf to Power Strike's CC chances, melee is going to fall even farther behind the SPY team. Boosting CC badges isn't going to make melee teams better than SPY, but it will at least introduce some more options.

@WellyLuga it's not really off topic though considering Jay-Z OP did include this, with does introduce the conversation about balance between melee and ranged.

If you could think of a good collection Point topic for this conversation I'd be happy to take part. Also I agree with your breakdown for Guild Wars mission

WellyLuga

ATLAS-Z said:

JayZ said:

With the upcoming nerf to Power Strike's CC chances, melee is going to fall even farther behind the SPY team. Boosting CC badges isn't going to make melee teams better than SPY, but it will at least introduce some more options.

@WellyLuga it's not really off topic though considering Jay-Z OP did include this, with does introduce the conversation about balance between melee and ranged.

If you could think of a good collection Point topic for this conversation I'd be happy to take part. Also I agree with your breakdown for Guild Wars mission

Very true, it's been a couple days since I read the first post. I forgot that it was to address the SPY dominance

ghost_pepper

-bump-

So how about it @Lexia? Can we get an improvement to existing CC badges along with existing heros? We don't need lots of new content, just a desire to use and play more of the existing content in the game.

ATLAS-Z

Change razor and Piercing to 50/75/100 for bronze/silver/gold and I think CC automatically comes back on the table.

ghost_pepper

That would do it.