FuriousMoldovan's Guild Wars Difficulty Guide

FuriousMoldovan

GW Map Difficulty levels.

GW difficulty levels are dynamic and are not the same for different players with varying levels of survivors.
Meaning the same island/sector/mission could show different difficulty level for different players based on their GW starting difficulty (GW baseline difficulty).

GW starting difficulty is based on the levels of three of your highest-level survivors OR your highest upgraded gear level minus 3.
Whichever is higher.

NOTE: [edge case] leveling up any gear that's higher than the {max non-upgraded equippable gear lvl} +3 at unlock will cause your difficulty to go up 1 level.

Example #1
Imagine your 3 or more highest-level survivors are level 28 OR your highest upgraded gear is lvl 31:
Then your GW starting difficulty is lvl 28.
Based on that, your 1ABC island levels are 28-30.
All other islands' levels are scaled based on lvl 28 starting difficulty as well.

Following actions will increase your GW starting difficulty to lvl 29 and 1ABC levels to 29-31:
1. Upgrading any 3 survivors to lvl 29.
    OR
2. Upgrading any 1 piece of gear to lvl 32.

Following actions will NOT increase your GW starting difficulty and 1ABC levels, they will stay at lvl 28-30:
1. Upgrading any lvl 29 gear (at unlock) to lvl 31.
    AND/OR
2. Upgrading any 2 survivors to lvl 29.

Example #2
You have 3 or more lvl 26 survivors, 1 lvl 27 survivor, 1 lvl 28 survivor OR your highest upgraded gear is lvl 30:
Then your 3 highest-level survivors are 1 at lvl 26, 1 at lvl 27, and 1 at lvl 28.
Based on that, your GW starting difficulty is lvl 27  [ how it's calculated: (26+27+28)÷3 = 27  OR  30-3=27 ].

Example #3 [edge case]
You have 3 or more highest-level survivors at level 22 OR your highest upgraded gear is lvl 25:
In this case your GW starting difficulty is lvl 22 (1ABC=lvl 22-24) and maximum non-upgraded equippable gear is lvl 22.
Imagine you picked up lvl 28 gear from crate (non-upgraded, non-equippable).
If you upgrade this lvl 28 gear to lvl 29 - your GW starting difficulty will go up to lvl 23 (1ABC=lvl 23-25).

NOTE: scrapping this upgraded gear will bring your GW starting difficulty back down to lvl 22.

GW Relative Difficulty.

There are a lot of guilds with players of mixed levels (probably the majority of the guilds).
Based on the info above - GW map levels vary. It might be very productive and less confusing to use Relative Difficulty to describe levels of missions/sectors/islands when communicating with your guildmates.
Relative Difficulty reference is independent of your level and is the same for everyone.

Example:
Players with 3 or more highest-level survivors at level 28 have island 1ABC difficulty = lvl 28-30 OR relative difficulty of +0+2.
Players with 3 or more highest-level survivors at level 23 have island 1ABC difficulty = lvl 23-25 OR relative difficulty of +0+2.
Players with 3 or more highest-level survivors at level 20 have island 1ABC difficulty = lvl 20-22 OR relative difficulty of +0+2.
Etc...


First "+n" is the lowest relative difficulty level of pvZ missions in this island.
Second "+n" is the highest relative difficulty level of pvZ missions in this island.

NOTE: level of Enemy defenders will always be +0 in PvPs (the same as GW starting difficulty).

GW defenders' equipment is always auto-upgraded and auto-leveled to attacker's levels. Defenders badges are always stripped in-battle (badges don't work for defenders, even when equipped).

GW Islands and their relative difficulty

Difficulty span is always 2 levels in the same island and sector.

Forest:
1ABC +0+2
2ABC +3+5
3ABC +6+8
4ABC +9+11
5ABC +12+14

Junkyard:
6ABC +1+3
7ABC +4+6
8ABC +7+9
9ABC +10+12
10ABC +13+15
11ABC +15+17
12ABC +17+19

Sanctuary:
13ABCD +2+4
14ABCD +5+7
15ABCD +8+10
16ABCD +11+13
17ABCD +14+16
18ABCD +16+18
19ABCD +18+20
20ABCD +19+21


#

FuriousMoldovan

@Lexia @Fluxxx Could you please test and verify the edge case from Example #3?
Our player tested and verified this scenario with exact levels and results described in this example.

Questions that I have:
1. Is that by design or unintentional side-effect?
2. If by design, what are the exact calculations NML uses for GW baseline lvl specifically for gear levels and specifically when leveling up any gear that's higher than the {max non-upgraded equipable gear lvl} +3 at unlock?

pollorex

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Thüringer

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

avelardez

What is the point of this post? 

FuriousMoldovan

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Un-equipable gear affects your GW base difficulty as well.
Read Example #3 [edge case] from my original post.

pollorex

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Join you to read first

ATLAS-Z

avelardez said:

What is the point of this post? 

I believe in the spirit of Good intentions, @FuriousMoldovan is trying to inform the uninformed masses that guild wars difficulties not standard fixed difficulties

 (example island 20 is difficulty 47-49 for me, but island 20 would be only difficulty 40-42 for someone lower level)

Many players don't know this, I would wager the vast majority. I've lost count the number of players trying to tell me they can handle difficulty 36 for example, but this is useless information to me unless I know also what level their troops are and what level their gear is etc etc.

Unfortunately in spite of his good intentions I think this post maybe a bit over the head of his target audience? But still I applaud the effort.

Yikes

Good guide. I get this question a lot in my old guild. An easy rule of thumb to remember is walkers scale from your survivor level and raiders scale to your survivor level in guild war. 

Thüringer

FuriousMoldovan said:

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Un-equipable gear affects your GW base difficulty as well.
Read Example #3 [edge case] from my original post.

O.k., thank you!

But if this is the case, then in the example of @pollorex to levelling up gear to level 27 with level 22 or 23 heroes should increase the difficulty of GW?

Thüringer

pollorex said:

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Join you to read first

Thank you, i have read your post and you wrote: "Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, ..."

If this is really the case, in my opinion the reason can be, that you are not able to use this gear yet?

ionica

From my own experience:

Toons lv 20, gear lv 23 -> island 1 starts at lv 20, raiders lv 20

Toons lv 20, one gear lv 24 -> island 1 starts at lv 21, raiders lv 21

I thought I could upgrade the gear and do more dmg, but it increased zombie lv as well.

Its a well thought system to stop us upgrading the gear to max

ATLAS-Z

I built this and use it for helping me players communicate their abilities to me. 

Thüringer

ionica said:

From my own experience:

Toons lv 20, gear lv 23 -> island 1 starts at lv 20, raiders lv 20

Toons lv 20, one gear lv 24 -> island 1 starts at lv 21, raiders lv 21

I thought I could upgrade the gear and do more dmg, but it increased zombie lv as well.

Its a well thought system to stop us upgrading the gear to max

Agree @ionica! I am "maxed out" since  round about one year, but this is my "stand of knowledge" too...

pollorex

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Join you to read first

Thank you, i have read your post and you wrote: "Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, ..."

If this is really the case, in my opinion the reason can be, that you are not able to use this gear yet?

No I'm not able to use it but this is no the Case cuz he said it changed the difficulty and I don't

Also I know what you mean if you are not able to use it it don't affect anything..

If you use tokens to upgrade the armor or weapon it does cuz you are wearing and the calc is :
Max gear level -3

So if you put it a 24 -3=21
Even when your survivor are level 20 The difficult would be 21 also for humans

Thüringer

pollorex said:

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Join you to read first

Thank you, i have read your post and you wrote: "Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, ..."

If this is really the case, in my opinion the reason can be, that you are not able to use this gear yet?

No I'm not able to use it but this is no the Case cuz he said it changed the difficulty and I don't

Also I know what you mean if you are not able to use it it don't affect anything..

If you use tokens to upgrade the armor or weapon it does cuz you are wearing and the calc is :
Max gear level -3

So if you put it a 24 -3=21
Even when your survivor are level 20 The difficult would be 21 also for humans

Thank you for the answer @pollorex! At your first post i couldn't see, if you write about equippable or non-equippable gear, what was the big question for me...

Then i think, we have the same opinion? Good evening... 🙂

FuriousMoldovan

Thüringer said:

FuriousMoldovan said:

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Un-equipable gear affects your GW base difficulty as well.
Read Example #3 [edge case] from my original post.

O.k., thank you!

But if this is the case, then in the example of @pollorex to levelling up gear to level 27 with level 22 or 23 heroes should increase the difficulty of GW?

If he reinforced equipable gear to lvl 27, then his GW baseline difficulty should be 24 - that's 100%.

Common knowledge was that unequipable gear doesn't affect your GW levels but in fact it does. We came across that with lvl 22 survivors and lvl 28 gear only, since upgrading/scrapping wide range of gear levels takes a lot of time, xp, risky due to difficulty increase, and can be checked by users only during active GW weeks.
That's why I'm waiting on @Lexia and @Fluxxx to confirm the extent of unequipable gear levels that affect GW baseline and exact calculations.

Thüringer

FuriousMoldovan said:

Thüringer said:

FuriousMoldovan said:

Thüringer said:

pollorex said:

Nop i usually start to update the next level weapon or amor before. ( Armors and normal weapon)


Leveling a upper weapon and armor don't change anything, my heroes are 23 may weapons are 26.

I have this amor 27 from i was 22 

Only the level of your equippable gear can be relevant for the difficulty of GW...

Can you use this level 27 armour with your level 22 or 23 heroes? I think no, if you don't use reinforcement-tokens, to upgrade it over the "normal 3 levels"...

Un-equipable gear affects your GW base difficulty as well.
Read Example #3 [edge case] from my original post.

O.k., thank you!

But if this is the case, then in the example of @pollorex to levelling up gear to level 27 with level 22 or 23 heroes should increase the difficulty of GW?

If he reinforced equipable gear to lvl 27, then his GW baseline difficulty should be 24 - that's 100%.

Common knowledge was that unequipable gear doesn't affect your GW levels but in fact it does. We came across that with lvl 22 survivors and lvl 28 gear only, since upgrading/scrapping wide range of gear levels takes a lot of time, xp, risky due to difficulty increase, and can be checked by users only during active GW weeks.
That's why I'm waiting on @Lexia and @Fluxxx to confirm the extent of unequipable gear levels that affect GW baseline and exact calculations.

Thank you for the information @FuriosMoldovan! That unequippable gear can affect the difficulty of GW is really new for me and that's why i am maybe a little bit confused... 😉

Lexia

FuriousMoldovan said:

@Lexia @Fluxxx Could you please test and verify the edge case from Example #3?
Our player tested and verified this scenario with exact levels and results described in this example.

Questions that I have:
1. Is that by design or unintentional side-effect?
2. If by design, what are the exact calculations NML uses for GW baseline lvl specifically for gear levels and specifically when leveling up any gear that's higher than the {max non-upgraded equipable gear lvl} +3 at unlock?

This doesn't sound like it's working as intended. We'll have a closer look and if possible, would you just in case be able to share the information of the player who experienced this (eg. in a DM)? Might be helpful during investigation.

Thank you already in advance!

avelardez

ATLAS-Z said:

avelardez said:

What is the point of this post? 

I believe in the spirit of Good intentions, @FuriousMoldovan is trying to inform the uninformed masses that guild wars difficulties not standard fixed difficulties

 (example island 20 is difficulty 47-49 for me, but island 20 would be only difficulty 40-42 for someone lower level)

Many players don't know this, I would wager the vast majority. I've lost count the number of players trying to tell me they can handle difficulty 36 for example, but this is useless information to me unless I know also what level their troops are and what level their gear is etc etc.

Unfortunately in spite of his good intentions I think this post maybe a bit over the head of his target audience? But still I applaud the effort.

It’s geared toward the individual player level. I remember back a year or two ago players would build secondary accounts up to level 12 fighters and reinforce gear up to 30 and kill island boys 20. I used my sons account to try it out but an update stopped that ability. He was fighting level 36 walkers on island 20. I believe his fingers were level 13 using level 21 gear. I could handle killing level 26 walker but got killed by the humans which were level 19 so easily. 

ATLAS-Z

@avelardez yeah that update is where the gear level +3 rule came from. 

FuriousMoldovan

Lexia said:

FuriousMoldovan said:

@Lexia @Fluxxx Could you please test and verify the edge case from Example #3?
Our player tested and verified this scenario with exact levels and results described in this example.

Questions that I have:
1. Is that by design or unintentional side-effect?
2. If by design, what are the exact calculations NML uses for GW baseline lvl specifically for gear levels and specifically when leveling up any gear that's higher than the {max non-upgraded equipable gear lvl} +3 at unlock?

This doesn't sound like it's working as intended. We'll have a closer look and if possible, would you just in case be able to share the information of the player who experienced this (eg. in a DM)? Might be helpful during investigation.

Thank you already in advance!

Thanks @Lexia
I'll send you DM with details shortly.

Mere

I have a player in my guild who needs some help. I think she’s being impacted by a situation similar to the edge case from example #3 in the OP.  

All her survivors were at level 21 and gear at 24 and the walkers she faced in level 14 island of GW were levels 26-28. She upgraded some gear with reinforcement tokens, three pieces to lvl 25 and one piece to 26. Now the walkers in the 14 island are 28-30. If I tell her to scrap the level 26 gear would that bring her “starting level” back down to 22? 

And she should be able to upgrade more than two survivors to level 22 and still see the same level walkers. Right? Because her base level is being determined by her gear. 

FuriousMoldovan

@Mere
Correct.
If she scraps lvl 26 gear - her baseline level will go down to lvl 22. And yes - she can upgrade more than 2 survivors to lvl 22.

If she scraps lvl 25 gear while keeping all survivors at lvl 21 (or maximum of 2 lvl 22 survivors) - her baseline will go down to lvl 21.

Mere

@FuriousMoldovan thanks for the help!💜 Sorry the reply was slow, RL got busy. 

cle681

I would like the War maps to be updated.

ATLAS-Z

good idea, but maybe there's another thread... Hmmmm lets see

TyroneSlothrop

FuriousMoldovan's OP of 7 months ago at the top of this thread appears to imply that Guild Wars scales for the players level, whether the player is at the level 78 max with level-29 charactersl, or if the player started yesterday and is level 10 using survivors.

Is this still true? What is the lowest practical level where someone can manage to handle sectors 1 or 2 in Guild Wars?

FuriousMoldovan

Yes, everything in the original post is still correct, including examples and relative difficulty.

NOTE: it's survivor and gear levels that matter, not player level.

Islands 1 RSL starts at your GW baseline lvl so it doesn't take much to handle it at all.