What is the purpose of having locked sectors and locked pvps in GWs? (And can we end that?)

Muirna

@Lexia what is the reason that GWs has been designed to have sectors (c) and missions (pvps) that can't be played immediately and are there any plans to change this in the future?

Teams with people in different timezones and countries can have more fun just playing the game itself if you unlocked all missions from the start. The time spent dealing with all the logistics and the external chat software required when players in Europe who can only play when the battle starts are the designated pvpers but are on the same team with players in the US who do walker missions but only have availability in the latter hours of the war when they are off work for example isn't really an optimal way to have fun. The in-game chat functionality does not support the amount of planning and communication needed for a multiplayer game mode with locked missions and sectors. And having availability throughout the battle or willingness to set your alarm and wake up in the middle of the night isn't an indication of someone's skill or strategy with actual gameplay. GWs with locked missions can be a source of conflict and frustration for players who don't have the intensive time to devote to coordinating schedules or playing off and on throughout the battle.

Also, the players who do pvps only or primarily pvps can't play their turns straight through, but their reward for the time they spend popping on and off throughout the battle to clear pvps is to get fewer points for those missions.

I'm hoping we can have a constructive conversation about how to improve the player experience in regards to the current logistical issues created by locked missions. Thanks!

Yikes

Coordination and communication is a big part of guild war. However, time zone differences can make it hard for teams located in different parts of the world to coordinate and communicate even if they want to. One solution is to allow sector C to be played before A and B are unlocked but it’s not worth any points until sectors A and B are completed.  Communication and coordination is still required but at least no one is locked out. 

Muirna

I agree. I don't think it would change all our communication, coordination, and planning that we do (in Discord since the in-game chat cannot accommodate our needs for that level of planning, communication, tagging, etc.) -- you have to do that whether missions are locked or not, otherwise you will have players doing missions all over the map rather than working together as a team to close islands and playing optimally in regards to their strengths and abilities.

But I do think it would help with the various schedule constraints that some guilds deal with -- can only play certain days at certain times due to work, child rearing, etc. -- combined with that not necessarily aligning with the missions they can handle in coordination with their teammates various schedule restrictions and timezones.

WellyLuga

The points for completing a C sector is so much higher than A/B so for me they have to stay locked until they are earned. Otherwise I feel that it may be exploited with lower number of teams playing only C sectors. 

The entire map is open, I don't understand what's so bad about how it is now. I could get behind having the human maps open from the start, nothing more.

Billbam

WellyLuga said:

The points for completing a C sector is so much higher than A/B so for me they have to stay locked until they are earned. Otherwise I feel that it may be exploited with lower number of teams playing only C sectors. 

The entire map is open, I don't understand what's so bad about how it is now. I could get behind having the human maps open from the start, nothing more.

I love the idea of the humans being open from the state, this would alleviate so much of the time zone issues with human killers having to wait for their maps to open.

Yikes

WellyLuga said:

The points for completing a C sector is so much higher than A/B so for me they have to stay locked until they are earned. Otherwise I feel that it may be exploited with lower number of teams playing only C sectors. 

The entire map is open, I don't understand what's so bad about how it is now. I could get behind having the human maps open from the start, nothing more.

If C sectors are open but worth zero points until A & B are completed, what would change besides being more accommodating to people’s schedules?  I don’t see how people can exploit it. 

Muirna

Yikes said:

WellyLuga said:

The points for completing a C sector is so much higher than A/B so for me they have to stay locked until they are earned. Otherwise I feel that it may be exploited with lower number of teams playing only C sectors. 

The entire map is open, I don't understand what's so bad about how it is now. I could get behind having the human maps open from the start, nothing more.

If C sectors are open but worth zero points until A & B are completed, what would change besides being more accommodating to people’s schedules?  I don’t see how people can exploit it. 

I think this could be a good solution. Or we could brainstorm something similar.

I would personally like GWs to stay the way it is -- I really like islands, sector c bonuses, etc. -- but figure out a way to help out those with really restricted or conflicting schedules.

At the minimum, unlocked pvps could really make a difference.

DoesNotMatter

If you unlock C and leave it's bonuses locked until A and B are completed, you'll get nothing if A and B are not, people don't use all 18, etc..

FuriousMoldovan

Having C unlocked and available to play but not getting points for it until AB are finished could open Pandora box of bugs on top of a train of existing ones.

And GW will stay in Beta for another 2 years.

Yikes

FuriousMoldovan said:

Having C unlocked and available to play but not getting points for it until AB are finished could open Pandora box of bugs on top of a train of existing ones.

And GW will stay in Beta for another 2 years.

Wow, that's pretty brittle code you're describing if something as simple as delaying points awarded for a sector would cause a cascade of other problems 

But then, I don't have details of the algorithms being used or the history.

FuriousMoldovan

Yikes said:

FuriousMoldovan said:

Having C unlocked and available to play but not getting points for it until AB are finished could open Pandora box of bugs on top of a train of existing ones.

And GW will stay in Beta for another 2 years.

Wow, that's pretty brittle code you're describing if something as simple as delaying points awarded for a sector would cause a cascade of other problems 

But then, I don't have details of the algorithms being used or the history.

Something as simple as app timeout (being idle) causes all kinds of bugs. So yeah, that's that.

Muirna

FuriousMoldovan said:

Having C unlocked and available to play but not getting points for it until AB are finished could open Pandora box of bugs on top of a train of existing ones.

And GW will stay in Beta for another 2 years.

What about having pvps unlocked in any unlocked sector at least? That in and of itself could provide some relief to the pvp only players.

WellyLuga

FuriousMoldovan said:

Having C unlocked and available to play but not getting points for it until AB are finished could open Pandora box of bugs on top of a train of existing ones.

And GW will stay in Beta for another 2 years.

This would basically have been my response. I don't know the first thing about coding but from what I understand NG have limited staff working on the game and most of them are writing code on top of someone else's code. I feel like this is something which could cause problems down the line for very little benefit.

If this is a huge problem for any guilds then have your European players play A/B and leave the C sectors to the players who join later in the day. 

I'd rather see NG spend their time working on improving the overall performance of GW. New maps/features maybe? Making it so that any top battle isn't an easy max score draw? I don't know, there's a long list of things I think the game mode needs before this but that's just my opinion. If it was implemented I'd obviously have no objections

find2046

Making 24 hours per "day" can solve the problem
Day 1 Mon UTC 00:00-23:59
Day 2 Wed UTC 00:00-23:59
Day 3 Fri UTC 00:00-23:59
Day 4 Sun UTC 00:00-23:59
Rest a week or enjoy Distance.

Max guild members are 20 persons and participate 40 times, fit in 4 days.  

ghost_pepper

Yikes said:

FuriousMoldovan said:

Having C unlocked and available to play but not getting points for it until AB are finished could open Pandora box of bugs on top of a train of existing ones.

And GW will stay in Beta for another 2 years.

Wow, that's pretty brittle code you're describing if something as simple as delaying points awarded for a sector would cause a cascade of other problems 

But then, I don't have details of the algorithms being used or the history.

It's extremely brittle and fragile. And you know what happens if it breaks right?

Muirna

find2046 said:

Making 24 hours per "day" can solve the problem
Day 1 Mon UTC 00:00-23:59
Day 2 Wed UTC 00:00-23:59
Day 3 Fri UTC 00:00-23:59
Day 4 Sun UTC 00:00-23:59
Rest a week or enjoy Distance.

I think having only 4 battles a week would bother teams that like having more flexibility with varied team sizes or whatever types of strategies they use in deciding which days to play and team sizes.

Honestly, it seems like the easiest tweak would just be to unlock pvps and would definitely be an improvement. Seems like the simplest adjustment to make without dramatically changing anything.

Burmeliinis

Now, this is perhaps being overly cautious, but even unlocking PvP might cause issues. I know of several cases, where a guild has piled a KAW mission, with someone staying inside the mission, while others exit. The mission is then shown as completed, and someone has then done the PvP mission. When the player lingering inside the KAW mission then exits later, no points were awarded. 

So allowing the PvP mission to be completed before the PvE missions might lead to lost points. So it would require more coding than just removing the lock.   

Muirna

Burmeliinis said:

Now, this is perhaps being overly cautious, but even unlocking PvP might cause issues. I know of several cases, where a guild has piled a KAW mission, with someone staying inside the mission, while others exit. The mission is then shown as completed, and someone has then done the PvP mission. When the player lingering inside the KAW mission then exits later, no points were awarded. 

So allowing the PvP mission to be completed before the PvE missions might lead to lost points. So it would require more coding than just removing the lock.   

I don't know enough about the coding of this game to really speculate on it, but it seems like the reason this happened is specifically because pvps are locked and that unlocking them would actually prevent this situation from happening again.

Bassreactor

1.Map preview picture
2.Icon - threat counter is present
3.Humans GW points == non humans GW points
4.Humans difficulty == non humans difficulty
5.After battle lose button (restart or continue (as in the distance))
6.Humans maps always open like non humans maps
7.Bonus x2
8.All nodes is open ABC, but bonus score you have for CLOSE all 3 sectors of island  not for C.
9.Score A,B=x*1.5, C=x, Bonus for close 3 sectors(A+B+C) = x

Burmeliinis

Why not simply change it so that the warning about entering a mission comes when you actually enter the mission, and not on the mission preview screen. If you change teams and weapons (maybe switch to Line/Discord to check messages/game plan) it’s easily a minute or two for someone else to go in and inadvertently pile the mission.

Muirna

@Lexia Would unlocking all pvps from the start be possible? People have made some points about why having C sectors unlocked might be more difficult to code (although maybe it isn't hard to just program the island bonus to only apply once a + b + c are all complete?), but it seems like unlocking all pvps would probably be pretty easy and not impact much other than better quality of life for people who do pvps.

vshield50

Having enemies unlocked would be great!

The crew at NG working on a response:

Jnpbl

I really want human maps unlocked.

Due to this issue, GW sometimes takes too long to finish.  I was in some active guilds, but most of them have the same problem.  Some players had to stay up past midnight or waste time waiting for the walkers or humans to finish.  Some players got tired and then left to play GW or searched for a better guild.  I think that's the case for 99% of guilds, but I know players in top guilds don't feel that frustration.  Once I belonged to the almost top guild, it was so smooth.

That's why it's natural that many casual players don't participate or don't spend all the attacks.  Most of us have limited time to play the game and we all have the real life and we can't devote our time to the game.  If you join the casual guilds, you will see a disaster.  This is a fatal problem for most guilds and the growth of this game.

Hellnight

WellyLuga said:

FuriousMoldovan said:

Having C unlocked and available to play but not getting points for it until AB are finished could open Pandora box of bugs on top of a train of existing ones.

And GW will stay in Beta for another 2 years.

This would basically have been my response. I don't know the first thing about coding but from what I understand NG have limited staff working on the game and most of them are writing code on top of someone else's code. I feel like this is something which could cause problems down the line for very little benefit.

If this is a huge problem for any guilds then have your European players play A/B and leave the C sectors to the players who join later in the day. 

I'd rather see NG spend their time working on improving the overall performance of GW. New maps/features maybe? Making it so that any top battle isn't an easy max score draw? I don't know, there's a long list of things I think the game mode needs before this but that's just my opinion. If it was implemented I'd obviously have no objections

 Are you assuming that European players and those from another continent have the same level? Because this is not a problem of zones, it is a problem of skill, level and/or resources.

The problem is that most guilds have different types of player levels and abilities, and it makes it much more difficult to coordinate how to play on an island. The problem of others depending on you at a certain moment (and vice versa), is what I have seen cause more conflicts and clan breakups (I make quite a few visits to Latin America).

In my particular case, this game was fun to play, because I could do it at any time, the slogan to help us in the clan was simply to add stars during the challenge. Now it's totally the other way around, you can't play in your spare time, you have to do it when necessary. This also encompasses that if you get damaged in battle, you can't wait to heal up sometimes, and most players can't or won't use gold. I repeat, in the high-level clans it is not so noticeable, they are more even, but let us agree that these clans are a minority.