Mercer's Axe not working as intended

Virtus

The interrupt feature of Mercer's Axe is not working. I was using Huntsman Daryl with it equipped and it did not interrupt a walker even though I had an action point left and was in Overwatch. I managed to record it happening and submitted a ticket to support.

echonap

Just curious if you were at least one step away from the walker? OW doesn't work when you’re standing next to a walker. That’s how it’s always worked

Virtus

Yes, I was adjacent, but no reason it shouldn't work still. I admit I've never played with interrupt before, but if that is the way it works, then the game mechanic is broken. Interrupt should work if you have action points left and go into overwatch, regardless of where the walker is. Makes no sense.

echonap

I never used interrupt before recently, but this is more related to how overwatch  functions than interrupt. OW only triggers on walker movement, and that’s how it’s always been. It will never hit a stationary walker. You’re confusing it with Zeke’s LT, which preempts attacks.

zbot

@Virtus, what @echonap said is correct, for overwatch you need at least to be at least a space away, it won’t work if you are adjacent to a enemy

ATLAS-Z

Overwatch could use a good tune up. 

Virtus

A successful interrupt stops a walker's attack. Nothing in the description for Mercer's Axe mentions it won't interrupt an attack from an adjacent walker.

With respect to Overwatch, it stops walker movement, but an attack should be considered movement and it should apply to an adjacent walker the same as a walker one space away. I don't care if it has always worked that way - it's wrong and needs to be changed so that it works properly. An attack is movement and should be interrupted. Period.

And let's not confuse this with Ezekiel's LT, which is a pre-attack and doesn't require action points remain (in overwatch) to take effect.

ATLAS-Z

While I agree with some of what you're saying, some changes to overwatch are needed, the axe IS working as intended. There's no bug. Just a bad old mechanic.

There's a difference between something broken and something that needs improvement. This is definitely the latter. 

ghost_pepper

So it's not broken but it is very poorly worded? It's so poorly worded that players interpret it as being bugged because that's what the wording says.

So I understand that the fix is to rewrite the description text to clearly and accurately reflect how the item actually works.

Glad that's all cleared up! That should be an easy bug to fix! 😄

Rohlikzauchem

In this particular situation one would guess Armored walker will move first, being stopped by HD´s OW due to his roster posiotion. But somehow things went in different order.

Where I see problem is that Mercer Axe description refers to OW. But OW is not described in the game anyhow clearly. 

Definitly need a fix and any easily accesable description for passive Character skills such as OW, Body Shots, Damage Reduction, Critical Chances and so on.

@Lexia could you please explain atleast here for now, how these rules within OW work?

Cronus

It certainly should be the most immediate threat which would be the walker directly in line with Daryl. Why it didn’t prioritize that walker seems to indicate overwatch is a random choice which makes overwatch unreliable. Perhaps code is written as “if ability to make user spend gold on healing then overwatch attack walker that doesn’t inflict any damage.”

echonap

@Rohlikzauchem I got caught on the same situation. Glad you recorded it. Maybe not quite a bug, but definitely need some clarification on the expected behavior so we can at least plan for it

zbot

@Rohlikzauchem @Cronus @echonap walkers move individually during their turn, the regular Walker moved first activating Daryl’s OW, then the armored walker moved, but for animation purposes it looks like they are moving at the same time. If something looks off, contact in game support and they can look into it.

Burmeliinis

zbot said:

@Rohlikzauchem @Cronus @echonap walkers move individually during their turn, the regular Walker moved first activating Daryl’s OW, then the armored walker moved, but for animation purposes it looks like they are moving at the same time. If something looks off, contact in game support and they can look into it.

That was not really the question. I think everyone agrees to what actually happened.

The thing is that walkers have a very definite targeting and movement
1. Walkers will target the closest enemy.
2. If there are two equally close targets, they will target based on roster position (i.e. leader first)

And based on this, the question is
3. If two walkers are of equal distance to the target, which one moves first? Based on point 2 above, the assumption was that the armored would move first (as it targets Daryl, who is of a higher priority than Ezekiel), but clearly this did not happen (as the regular moved first).

So there's a few options (for the two closest walkers that are equally close to a target)

A. The upper/right (north/east) moves first (similarly to how walkers move up and right if they are unable to move towards their target)
B. They move in random order
C. They move at the exact same time, but overwatch will trigger against a random target
D. The walker targeting Daryl should have moved first but a bug happened

(not sure if B and C differ from a practical point of view)

Rohlikzauchem

@zbot no doubt about it. But other folks are on point. We just need to know how mechanics work at first place. 

Not my video, recorded by BrX from CzSk Alfa. 

Rohlikzauchem

I will just bump this and politely ask Her Majesty @Lexia to contribute in conversation😇

Lexia

No bug, everything is working as it should

NatsuDark

Lexia said:

No bug, everything is working as it should

Okay, but if that's the case, why did Daryl attack the Regular Walker instead of the Armored walker? The Armored Walker should in theory walk first as it is closer to the Leader.

Rohlikzauchem

Lexia said:

No bug, everything is working as it should

Ok. You clearly did not get on point, or avoiding my question. I will start new thread about OW.

Lexia

Zbot already answered that as well. All info is in this thread already

NatsuDark

Lexia said:

Zbot already answered that as well. All info is in this thread already

But why the regular walker moves first? It is random? Or there's an logic?

"The thing is that walkers have a very definite targeting and movement
1. Walkers will target the closest enemy.
2. If there are two equally close targets, they will target based on roster position (i.e. leader first)

And based on this, the question is
3. If two walkers are of equal distance to the target, which one moves first? Based on point 2 above, the assumption was that the armored would move first (as it targets Daryl, who is of a higher priority than Ezekiel), but clearly this did not happen (as the regular moved first)."

Rohlikzauchem

According to FaQ: Overwatch choose closest target.

Which did not happened in GIF situation 

ghost_pepper

Where's that IWAI image?

ATLAS-Z

What's more important is... Why use that team?? And risk Oversnatch? 

I did that mission in 10 seconds with Daryl, RGG, and PGG. Lol. 

(round 75 no tools) 

BrX

That’s not a question how many attempts you need to be lucky to open just 3 crates and what team.

Question is how the overwatch mechanics works and I see no answer for it. And yes the video is mine.

@Lexia or someone else from NG who maybe knows please the clear explanation for the overwatch mechanics.

Yikes

I’m going to state the obvious since no one has done so. The issue here is that for melee, players need to know how walkers move and in what order so that they can anticipate and position their survivors appropriately.  If players cannot predict how walkers move or in what order they attack, then it makes it a lot harder to play melee teams and creates an imbalance with ranged teams. For ranged teams, you just have to stay far enough away before you end turn and you’ll be fine.  With melee, not understanding the rules for walker movement means mechanisms such as overwatch and interrupt becomes risky to use. 

Cronus

Yikes said:

I’m going to state the obvious since no one has done so. The issue here is that for melee, players need to know how walkers move and in what order so that they can anticipate and position their survivors appropriately.  If players cannot predict how walkers move or in what order they attack, then it makes it a lot harder to play melee teams and creates an imbalance with ranged teams. For ranged teams, you just have to stay far enough away before you end turn and you’ll be fine.  With melee, not understanding the rules for walker movement means mechanisms such as overwatch and interrupt becomes risky to use. 

And this uncertainty leads to more profit in terms of gold used for healing. Like my dad would say, “it’s driven by the almighty dollar.” It’s really a quite rudimentary question to answer. The fact it’s being danced around says a lot. It’s either intentional or ignorance. Pick one.

zbot

Who the walker targets after moving and which walker moves first is 2 separate thing, overwatch targets the first walker that comes into range not the first walker that targets. I think it’s been a long time since interrupt was useful so players have forgotten about it.  

Answered and closed for now.