Bug with Hazard Bulldozer "Piercing" = Bug when hitting bullet proof walkers (armor / spike / metal)

ZXer

Hasn't anyone else noticed that Hazard Bulldozer rarely push?

Nominally it has gold piercing, meaning, it should shoot non-BS about 40% of the time (therefore = 60% BS).

But here's my data:

Frequency of body shots:
5/6
3/4
4/4
4/5
1/1
1/1
4/4
3/3
1/1
6/7
6/6
5/5
3/5

Overall = 46/52 = 88% body shots

So this is not even silver piercing.

I can and will collect more data, but I am very sure there is something wrong here

@Lexia ?

ZXer

Some videos

https://youtu.be/6Gwwq_dHwys
https://youtu.be/qWgjzckFlXQ

Some Calculations:

Out of 10 enemies, assuming 40% lucky

 Piercing = 4 will be pushed
Ensnare = 2.24 will be rooted

 Non Piercing = 6 will be body shot
Cripple = 4.2 will be crippled
 Remaining = 1.8 will get no status effect + specials that got pushed against objects but are stun resistant

 Total = 10
1.76 = pushed but not rooted
2.24 = pushed and rooted
4.2 = crippled
1.8 = nothing

 with rounding:
2 = pushed but not rooted
2 = pushed and rooted
4 = crippled
2 = nothing

Out of 5 enemies
1 = pushed but not rooted
1 = pushed and rooted
2 = crippled
1 = nothing

ZXer

From the same videos:

Obliterator

3/3
3/3
4/5
5/6

Seems like piercing in general is broken?

Stalker20

Have you got sure shot on your assaults? It definitely helps with pushback. Should have pushed on a charge attack though, I get pretty much 100% push on those. 

ZXer

Stalker20 said:

Have you got sure shot on your assaults? It definitely helps with pushback. Should have pushed on a charge attack though, I get pretty much 100% push on those. 

Sure shot can only activate when the attack is non body shot. 

Technically you should be getting 100% push on ALL NON BODY SHOTS. Including crits from sure shots.

ZXer

More data on piercing performance

EDIT: I forgot that pink stars determined ASL. Therefore ignore the HazBul's stats up to 40-ish. The reduced BS was due to ASL not yet reaching +5.

Stalker20

Am I reading the trait wrong? For me it says 45% greater chance of critical hit ie not a bodyshot. 

ZXer

Stalker20 said:

Am I reading the trait wrong? For me it says 45% greater chance of critical hit ie not a bodyshot. 

Critical hit will not happen on body shots

Equip non piercing weapon and your sure shot will never activate on RSL +5

Cronus

ZXer said:

Hasn't anyone else noticed that Hazard Bulldozer rarely push?

Nominally it has gold piercing, meaning, it should shoot non-BS about 40% of the time (therefore = 60% BS).

I used the bulldozer shotgun (crippling/ensnare/piercing) on the Last Stand and thought how unreliable push back was on high level targets (fatties, spiked, etc). Empirically speaking it felt like the push mechanism was not functioning as intended, or at least as it theoretically should be.

RocketRacoon

Ng please fix this asap we paid for this gun

FuriousMoldovan

ZXer said:

Stalker20 said:

Am I reading the trait wrong? For me it says 45% greater chance of critical hit ie not a bodyshot. 

Critical hit will not happen on body shots

Equip non piercing weapon and your sure shot will never activate on RSL +5

Agree.
Small correction: "on ASL+5".


ASL for Non-heroes: their lvl + number of pink stars.

ASL for heroes: their lvl + 1 + number of pink stars.

ZXer

When do you say ASL and when do you say RSL?

I assume ASL is the actual level of your toon.

What is RSL? I know the abbreviation, but I don't know the proper use of each term

FuriousMoldovan

ASL - Actual Survivor Level (or average survivor level) - it's calculated the way I explained above and mostly used to determine bodyshots % chance.

This tooltip always shows ASL+2 for any given survivor/hero:
So my Sasha's ASL is lvl 35:
29 + 1 + 5
(all heroes have 1 built-in star).


RSL - Recommended Survivor Level - it's another word old timers used for mission difficulty.

This is RSL:
I'm pretty sure that back in time it used to say "Recommended Survivor Level" instead of "Difficulty" on mission start screen.
Not that many people call it RSL anymore.

ZXer

Ah RSL is "difficulty"

Got it

Thanks!

ZXer

@Lexia here are some more data, very few data points but all are pointing to the same direction: something is wrong with the piercing on the Hazard Bulldozer (and the Obliterator)

I will collect more data at the end of this week's Challenge.

I suspect it's got a silver piercing, not gold as advertised.

Lexia

@ZXer The team has done some testing based on some of the things shared here, but we have not been able to find anything wrong with the weapon. Please do keep in mind that Piercing (or Razor) is NOT affected by Lucky

ATLAS-Z

Lexia said:

@ZXer The team has done some testing based on some of the things shared here, but we have not been able to find anything wrong with the weapon. Please do keep in mind that Piercing (or Razor) is NOT affected by Lucky

Hey Lexia, reading his post, I believe he's listing lucky value in relationship to other factors, like Cripple & Ensnare. 

ZXer

Yes I am aware piercing is not affected by lucky. However if you see all the tables above, the piercing rate is clocked at between 25-30%, much lower than the 40% advertised.

However I also understand that we have not taken a lot of data, not enough to make the data 99% conclusive.

I will take more data at the end of this challenge and record some videos. We should be able to give a 99.9% conclusive verdict given some maps in this week's challenge are very good for testing.

ZXer

Here are some more videos. I will recap all data at the end of the week but I’m pretty sure it is bugged

7 out of 7 all body shots
11 out of 11 all body shots

@Lexia

https://youtu.be/4bI3lTLOgEc = 7 out of 7

https://youtu.be/S8RUy292FEU = 11 out of 11

ZXer

@Lexia please, this is definitely a bug

Here I made a compilation of videos.

Note that a chance of hitting 7 walkers and getting zero body shots is like 1%. The chance of hitting 11 and getting zero body shots is basically zero.

The chance of being able to repeat this 5 in a row is basically = there is no chance. This is a bug. 

Please. We paid for this. This is not some F2P weapon. We actually paid for this.

I do note that when hitting only 1-2 walkers such as when used in BBQ setting, the bulldozer works like normal, getting like 5-6 push for 20-ish hits. But this is not the point of the Bulldozer. On such setting, the obliterator or decimator would work far better.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlLdbCS3FxoyCeMULU4lu9y574-PF4Lgt

m4s

Very good job, a lot of data in the form of videos where you can clearly see the malfunction of the weapon.

We will wait for further developer testing

Stalker20

In the interest of discussion have you got any assaults with sure shot to experiment with? 
I'm getting normal pushback with both Princess and Mercer who both have it. 

ZXer

Stalker20 said:

In the interest of discussion have you got any assaults with sure shot to experiment with? 
I'm getting normal pushback with both Princess and Mercer who both have it. 

Sure Shot should have nothing to do with it, as Sure Shot in theory will only activate once you get non body shots.

Also it does work, for sure, just not at the advertised rate. So unless you begin counting and taking data, you can't say "it works"

Also, as I mentioned above, it also works normal on BBQ, when the target is fewer. I don't know why it works when you hit 1-2 and doesn't when you hit 10-11

TembelOne

ZXer said:

@Lexia please, this is definitely a bug

Here I made a compilation of videos.

Note that a chance of hitting 7 walkers and getting zero body shots is like 1%. The chance of hitting 11 and getting zero body shots is basically zero.

The chance of being able to repeat this 5 in a row is basically = there is no chance. This is a bug. 

Please. We paid for this. This is not some F2P weapon. We actually paid for this.

I do note that when hitting only 1-2 walkers such as when used in BBQ setting, the bulldozer works like normal, getting like 5-6 push for 20-ish hits. But this is not the point of the Bulldozer. On such setting, the obliterator or decimator would work far better.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlLdbCS3FxoyCeMULU4lu9y574-PF4Lgt

well this was really annoying me, glad someone investigated it properly. i had high hopes about that weapon we all paid, not getting the full potential of it really sucks...

Stalker20

Here is a couple of videos I took to help with data @ZXer, hope it helps. Probably the last time I use Eugene on this mission 😆
https://youtu.be/YbWj7lo4o9E
https://youtu.be/Q7396cPUtOU

ZXer

@Stalker20 it definitely looks bugged in a way that you see that piercing doesn't activate at all at times

Remember that if you use charged attack then it is guaranteed critical non BS so it will push.  This is to be expected.

ZXer

@Lexia @Fluxxx

A group of players have figured out the mystery around excess body shots on the Hazard Bulldozers.

It looks like the rate of piercing went down to about 10% when hitting bullet proof walkers (armored / spikey / metal heads)

1. Please inform us whether this is the intention or it is a bug. IMO it is a bug because the description for piercing is clear = PIERCING; Reduces the chance that your attacks will result in Body Shots by 40%. At higher levels, the chance of Body Shots is = 100%. And one should be able to safely assume if the chance exceeds 100%, then it is a bug. Reduction of 40% from 100% means 60%, not 90% as it is presently. So the treatment of bullet proof walkers should be the same with the treatment of all walkers at higher levels.

2. If it is a bug, please let us know if it would be corrected

3. If it is the intention, at the very least the description must be changed, so it won't be misleading. Current description mentions nothing about different walker class getting different treatment on effectiveness of the weapon. Then if it is the intention, IMO the advertisement is very misleading. I bought this weapon with cash thinking that it would make a slightly better alternative than the F2P Rosita's AR. In this case this weapon will not be better than Rosita's AR especially at higher levels. It will be very disappointing. So I would instead suggest to modify the traits and make the piercing be the silver and the cripple = gold. Or the ensnare be silver and the cripple = gold. @ATLAS-Z might have better wisdom as to what could be the ideal traits here. But in the end it needs to be better than the F2P RoAR

Again, we buy this weapon for cash, so if you want continued loyalty from us on buying the next new weapons and survival pass, you have to consider making it better than any F2P versions.

ATLAS-Z

Good info here @Lexia these guys did good work

Lexia

Thank you, I've shared all the recent inputs with the team. Will share more when I can

m4s

from help

BenjaminT

Seems the clues where there all along, it’s just that no one ever looked for them before 

still, very useful research has been done to highlight what’s probably been an uncovered secret of the game from the beginning