Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
Badge crafting overhaul
Skywithin
Member Posts: 68 ✭✭✭
Crafting top badges is a daunting and frustrating process and learning how to craft badges properly is akin to getting PhD in Statistics. I want to talk about problems of crafting and perhaps suggest a solution.
First, let's get basic facts straight - crafting is not random. Everything is procedurally generated. The game already "knows" what the next badge is going to be.
There are techniques which allow you to craft badges more efficiently compared to randomly trying to guess what the next badge is going to be. People who are not aware of these techniques will NEVER get a golden set of top badges even for a single hero. Chances of building a golden six-pack of badges of the right type with the right form in the right set with the right bonus with the top values by pure luck is virtually zero. You are more likely to win a jackpot in a Casino. IMHO it's fair to say that everyone who has at least one hero with the top badges didn't get them by luck alone. This means the game community is split into two tiers - those who know how to get badges and those who don't. I think it's lame.
Everyone wants to get the best golden badges, however, the game mechanics is designed to prevent people from getting them. This introduces an incentive for "creative" solutions.
What I propose is to fix the system. When crafting a badge, let the player know what the next badge is going to be. There is no need to hide it. Just make it transparent. It doesn't need to be so difficult - it needs to be fun.
Obviously, there are more ways to solve this problem. How would YOU overhaul badge crafting?
First, let's get basic facts straight - crafting is not random. Everything is procedurally generated. The game already "knows" what the next badge is going to be.
There are techniques which allow you to craft badges more efficiently compared to randomly trying to guess what the next badge is going to be. People who are not aware of these techniques will NEVER get a golden set of top badges even for a single hero. Chances of building a golden six-pack of badges of the right type with the right form in the right set with the right bonus with the top values by pure luck is virtually zero. You are more likely to win a jackpot in a Casino. IMHO it's fair to say that everyone who has at least one hero with the top badges didn't get them by luck alone. This means the game community is split into two tiers - those who know how to get badges and those who don't. I think it's lame.
Everyone wants to get the best golden badges, however, the game mechanics is designed to prevent people from getting them. This introduces an incentive for "creative" solutions.
What I propose is to fix the system. When crafting a badge, let the player know what the next badge is going to be. There is no need to hide it. Just make it transparent. It doesn't need to be so difficult - it needs to be fun.
Obviously, there are more ways to solve this problem. How would YOU overhaul badge crafting?
Comments
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I completely agree, there are community generated spreadsheets which when you know where you are on the cycle and put in the badge you want to create will tell you what the next badge bonus will be, and if it’ll be odd or even. Why NG can’t do this for us is a mystery. It’ll actually lead to more component sales as people will be wanting to craft more often knowing that they can get to something good. They need to level the playing field when it comes to badge creation. There would still be an advantage to knowing the cycles as you can move around quicker and be more efficient but at least those casual players who just want a bit of fun can just cycle through and not waste their previous legendary pieces.
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A LOT of work has gone into cracking the code, discovering “exploits”, and a select few seem to derive more pleasure from the research than the gameplay, so those types, as well as those enjoying the elitist advantage, are the only ones likely to disagree. They could still have the advantage of knowing the entire map. This would be for the betterment of the game overall.
The one reason I don’t see this happening is that this is classified as a gambling game designed to tap into gamblers’ euphoria, looking forward to the magical possibilities of the next “pull”. I refuse to support that model by only spending money on guaranteed results. -
Although I like the non-randomness of crafting I also think if it's not random for some it should not be random for others (more casual players that don't know that these sheets even exist).Ü30 Deutschland
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That's nonsense. No one who wants an elitist advantage spend many hours to create, simplify, share, document the map and then answer the same questions over and over all for free. If we didn't want people benefiting from the map you wouldn't have know it existed.IcePeter said:A LOT of work has gone into cracking the code, discovering “exploits”, and a select few seem to derive more pleasure from the research than the gameplay, so those types, as well as those enjoying the elitist advantage, are the only ones likely to disagree. They could still have the advantage of knowing the entire map. This would be for the betterment of the game overall.If you want to get better at this game, join Discord and learn badge crafting and much more: https://discord.gg/cDhgv3AJ89
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Yes, there are communities which can help and teach how to use the map. It's not kept as a closely guarded secret but it's not straight forward either. The game doesn't give any indication of this hidden schema. If you don't know that it exists you'll never find it on your own. Crafting using a map is not fun at all, but the alternative is even worse.
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You make a point which is total crap. The biggest advocates for RELEASING THE PATTERN are those of us constantly answering badging questions, creating spread sheets to share, and making how to videos. We WANT this to be a level playing field! The only reason I am not shouting from the roof tops about the bonus pattern is because it is possible NG will misunderstand the situation again and screw everything up. There is a lot of frustration about badging, even for game support which clearly doesn't understand the basics of it, so I'll chalk your comment up to general frustration and forgive you for it.IcePeter said:A LOT of work has gone into cracking the code, discovering “exploits”, and a select few seem to derive more pleasure from the research than the gameplay, so those types, as well as those enjoying the elitist advantage, are the only ones likely to disagree. They could still have the advantage of knowing the entire map. This would be for the betterment of the game overall.
The one reason I don’t see this happening is that this is classified as a gambling game designed to tap into gamblers’ euphoria, looking forward to the magical possibilities of the next “pull”. I refuse to support that model by only spending money on guaranteed results.
The point made above by @Firekid is absolutely correct. NG doesn't understand their game or players in that showing the upcoming badge bonus and the odd/even orientation will increase gold sales for components as more casual players say "gee, it's a lot easier to get these good gold badges now".
The biggest thing NG can do to increase gold spending is extend guild gift chests through Mondays and Tuesdays from the first week into the following week, so 9 days in a row. Those are the best way to get blue and gold components, mathematically speaking.
And as usual, anyone who would like to learn the crafting system (including NG employees), join the discord server. We're there all day and our response time is much faster than support.
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I do agree with you on this, 100%. NG monetizes gambling and believes this is how they best monetize crafting. This thinking on their part is wrong. The only purchases I've made on this game have been non-random buys. I was guaranteed to get the item I bought. I believe this line of thinking represents a large majority of players, certainly the ones I've spoken to over the last year and a half. I wouldn't buy a random item deal because what if I didn't get what I wanted? That's probably why NG doesn't offer them. Total fail.IcePeter said:The one reason I don’t see this happening is that this is classified as a gambling game designed to tap into gamblers’ euphoria, looking forward to the magical possibilities of the next “pull”. I refuse to support that model by only spending money on guaranteed results.
NG would best monetize badging if players experienced the system as non-random. Just like premium items. Maybe they'll talk about this. -
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Why don't you ask NG to give all players perfect badges for all of their survivors/heroes? Why bother with crafting at all?
P.S. it is not that hard to discover how badge crafting/badge-reroll cycles work
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In every game I've played all crafting mechanics work pretty much the same way: you put together required components and get the expected result. In TWD NML you need to use 3rd party map just to get slightly better odds because available in-game crafting lottery sucks. Golden components are already precious as they are. Nobody wants to gamble with the outcome.
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I suggested to NG two years ago a new badge creation system in the JayZ thread. Now I can no longer find this message. I will look for my table and show it to you. Then I suggested a system that was made so as not to change the game code a little and do not need to enter anything new. All fragments and components remain. Each player could create an icon of the desired property, in the desired category and the desired position. The bonus of the badge and its top score is random.
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I've been playing for a long time and I've heard many complaints from players about the badge system. Many players have already left the game, as they were wasting their fragments and components in vain. Some players were lucky, while others were unlucky. The constant bad luck made the players very upset. They knew they were being fooled by the bange-making system, but nothing could be done.
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We need to join forces and create a new badging system that will build on the fragments and rewards that exist today. We can offer this system to our favorite game. Last time I was alone, but NG took some of my ideas (badge recipes, badge rolls).
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I suggested introducing this badging system two years ago.
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However, the system must be improved and it is necessary to exclude all options for accidentally creating the wrong badge. There are a lot of heroes and survivors in the game now. Players will agree to purchase gold, fragments and ingredients if they know they will have a good badge. Otherwise, developing players simply quit the game, because they understand that they can make good heroes with badges in at least 10 years. I think that this project will no longer exist by that time. They understand this too.
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The in game ad told me some new big mega release of content happened in some game I've never played yet. Maybe my attention flows away from some complex and evil black magic system of getting good badges which feels nearly impossible and even if I did get them they wouldn't fit together anyway.... ooo what's this shiny download game over there!
That's my understanding of the new player experience. Either that or the staggering mountain of supplies/xp or character token requirement turns them around. Or getting out of a shitty guild and finding even a reasonable one, regardless of what being in a good guild means to someone simply knowing to leave the bad one is a big step.
Players that are actually playing the game shouldn't face such an immense roadblock as the badge crafting system. Players stop spending, or playing, when they're mad or frustrated. The badging system isn't doing this game any favors for the player base with that. -
@ghost_pepper stated, "And as usual, anyone who would like to learn the crafting system (including NG employees), join the discord server. We're there all day and our response time is much faster than support."
Could you post a link or instructions on how to do this? I am not familiar with Discord and don't know how to "join the discord server" and would appreciate any help you can provide. Over the last several months I have been collecting gold components and fragments and now have enough to make 20+ gold badges, but I don't want to without knowing the "formula".
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@Marcus6253 here’s the link to the discord server https://discord.gg/VUZgeCm4 loads of really useful information on there.I’ve also done a tutorial on my YouTube channel which may help. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtQ7D6oxUUw9BHr1KJiknjIWu4hCWJ113
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GP and paste, my bad, it looks like my post was worded a bit more harshly than intended. And thank you for pointing out my false assumptions that those who have put in the sweat equity may prefer not to have what they worked so hard to discover made readily available to anyone. I stand corrected on your motives. I certainly fit the category of enjoying the “elitist advantage” without contributing to the research.
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There is no shadowy secret cabal in the corner where dark denizens manipulate whole guilds and guild families with game secrets and strategies to further line their own pockets from uncounted cash piles so big their feet rest on top while sipping martinis or little umbrella drinks. But if there is can I apply as a junior member?
In all seriousness, on every level of this game I've experienced an openness to share all information and to help others improve. It takes a very special community to play any kind of competitive game with a universal approach towards helping others, including the opposition.
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Sadly, I think there are plenty of folks out their that DO pump $$ into the "random" jackpot.
Not your typical wise and frugal gamers, certainly, but I know a few. They're too busy out there making all that huge cash and don't have a lot of time, but when they play, they spend, and spend a lot.
Don't assume because you and your buddies don't spend on something that no one does. That's a mistake.
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Oh I know the 80-20 formula is now the 95-5. It seems an unnecessarily exclusive approach.
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This 100%👍😅brucewayne007 said:Mate you should of played when it was 1st introduced. A true lottery lol
Before rerolls and community maps existed, So.Many. components burned through just to come up with decent legendary sets.
Support the cause though, crafting process needs simplification!Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide -
@Firekid
Thanks for the links, they have been very helpful, especially the videos about how to navigate the table. I really appreciate the help. -
No problem! Hopefully you’ll be able to get some great badges now!
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@Fluxxx, what do you think about this problem? We are ready to help you come up with a new badge creation system. This system should be more correct and not cause bad emotions. If you need help, we are ready to spend our time improving the game in any direction. Please contact us.
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I haven't made badges for a long time, because the badging system is very bad and my mood deteriorated every time. We can help developers improve their badging system by contacting players on this forum. I think that this will be a very correct action and solution to this problem. They will be able to make money selling gold, as before, and the players will be able to have fun, and not spoil their mood.
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ghost_pepper said:
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Players that are actually playing the game shouldn't face such an immense roadblock as the badge crafting system. Players stop spending, or playing, when they're mad or frustrated. The badging system isn't doing this game any favors for the player base with that.
Yes, exactly!
Over the last few months, I've had some really good players in my guild quit the game. They were frustrated with certain aspects, losing interest and moving on to other games instead. They went from being very active to gradually just never coming back. I'm talking about people who had a few years committed to this game. It's very sad when that happens.
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