The absurdity of the rewards for the challenge

mir · December 2021

That's what's already going online. It's a joke), everything can be changed.

Yikes · December 2021

The whole star hero concept and reward structure can be received by players in one of two ways:
1) you get something extra by fulfilling an extra condition (I.e. using a specified hero)
2) you must play in this specified way in order to get the reward that you used to get.

I think the intention was to get players to accept this feature as a #1 but due to the reward structure change, some are seeing this as a #2.

Killdozer187_ · December 2021

Yikes said:

The whole star hero concept and reward structure can be received by players in one of two ways:
1) you get something extra by fulfilling an extra condition (I.e. using a specified hero)
2) you must play in this specified way in order to get the reward that you used to get.

I think the intention was to get players to accept this feature as a #1 but due to the reward structure change, some are seeing this as a #2.

Only supreme masochists care about gold throwing & tooling their way to the top of the global LB without dropping ⭐'s 🤣

The rewards to 4878 should've been left the same and NG should've scaled up the ones for the .1% crowd wanting to play to the finish without dropping a star.

Wortip · December 2021

Killdozer187_ said:

Yikes said:

The whole star hero concept and reward structure can be received by players in one of two ways:
1) you get something extra by fulfilling an extra condition (I.e. using a specified hero)
2) you must play in this specified way in order to get the reward that you used to get.

I think the intention was to get players to accept this feature as a #1 but due to the reward structure change, some are seeing this as a #2.

Only supreme masochists care about gold throwing & tooling their way to the top of the global LB without dropping ⭐'s 🤣

The rewards to 4878 should've been left the same and NG should've scaled up the ones for the .1% crowd wanting to play to the finish without dropping a star.

Don’t forget people with OCD like me who NEED to have perfect score.

This week was definitely an extra try hard with more tools and gold used. Rewards should be scaled a bit more generously.

ghost_pepper · December 2021

Killdozer187_ said:
The rewards to 4878 should've been left the same and NG should've scaled up the ones for the .1% crowd wanting to play to the finish without dropping a star.

Changes which should be made based upon switching back to the old rewards structure

Change 1
Remove the useless purples boxes and put in something actually useful. Reroll tokens. Dog or Mask tokens. A box which drops a guaranteed 25 gold. Another tool. Something that doesn't actually suck.

Change 2
Alpha tokens should be swapped for Mercer. Alpha goes basically unused now. It's also a high enough star level to encourage players to push into that range through the nightmare play.

And put Beth in the 5100 or 5200 range. No one wants her anyway. The players pulling in those scores will do it regardless of the rewards. Give them Beth.

Arqueue · December 2021

ghost_pepper said:

Killdozer187_ said:
The rewards to 4878 should've been left the same and NG should've scaled up the ones for the .1% crowd wanting to play to the finish without dropping a star.

Changes which should be made based upon switching back to the old rewards structure

Change 1
Remove the useless purples boxes and put in something actually useful. Reroll tokens. Dog or Mask tokens. A box which drops a guaranteed 25 gold. Another tool. Something that doesn't actually suck.

Change 2
Alpha tokens should be swapped for Mercer. Alpha goes basically unused now. It's also a high enough star level to encourage players to push into that range through the nightmare play.

And put Beth in the 5100 or 5200 range. No one wants her anyway. The players pulling in those scores will do it regardless of the rewards. Give them Beth.

how about removing Alpha and put Mercer as the final reward in The Distance Hard mode also? dare to take the challenge, NG?

ATLAS-Z · December 2021

My favorite thing about this post is the title

Really seems some struggle with this basic concept but not this OP, you know right about what's in here.

ghost_pepper · December 2021

Maybe if you hadn't picked a tiff with the op it might have more traction and perhaps even replies from lexia. If I were her, I'd probably be ignoring it now, despite the tons of really good player feedback in it now.

ATLAS-Z · December 2021

ghost_pepper said:

Maybe if you hadn't picked a tiff with the op it might have more traction and perhaps even replies from lexia. If I were her, I'd probably be ignoring it now, despite the tons of really good player feedback in it now.

Oftentimes they are in the habit of being a little bit reserved when they first introduced a change. One of the times they did not do this was when they first introduced the cap and put a bunch of nice juicy rewards at the top. If they hadn't done that they wouldn't be in the pickle they are now.

Players want more more more more, always, but there's only so much "more" that's reasonable to give. Saturation is a thing.

Besides i think @Lexia is hearing the cries loud and clear. She's a smart lady, and she is taking notes I would guarantee it.

vshield50 · December 2021

I thought it was spirited debate @ATLAS-Z and I found it entertaining since I have never had one of those on here before

I do agree though I am sure they are considering the comments made and will make adjustments accordingly if appropriate.

JayZ · December 2021

After 4000 stars, Deluxe Challenge Crates should be replaced by something like Premium Challenge Crates, where each reward is one of the following: 4 radios, 25 gold, 3 reroll or reinforcement tokens, and a small chance of a tool or gold component. That balancing change, along with the current rewards structure, would help restore rewards to equilibrium.

echonap · December 2021

Deluxe challenge crates have way too high a chance of being utterly useless. I would rather have 6 brown crates from running the beach mission.

ATLAS-Z · December 2021

JayZ said:

After 4000 stars, Deluxe Challenge Crates should be replaced by something like Premium Challenge Crates, where each reward is one of the following: 4 radios, 25 gold, 3 reroll or reinforcement tokens, and a small chance of a tool or gold component. That balancing change, along with the current rewards structure, would help restore rewards to equilibrium.

This @Lexia

FuriousMoldovan · December 2021

↑
+1 @Lexia

JayZ · December 2021

Hey, look at that. People on the forums agreeing on something. Must be a good idea, or a revenue-losing idea

vshield50 · December 2021

@JayZ definitely a revenue generator because people who don't push often (like yours truly) may be encouraged to drop a gold bar or 2 and give it a shot

ATLAS-Z · December 2021

@Lexia @vshield50 @FuriousMoldovan
@JayZ

Part of the Brilliance I think with Jay-Z's suggestion is that it will encourage people to push without star hero. Those of us who are discouraged with no hope of leaderboard prospects may still want to buckle up and go big anyway with things like this on the table

Tools and gold may be required for top-level ranking with Star hero but we already know hundreds of people can break 4K with little investment and these people need a little extra incentive to Keep On Keepin On

ghost_pepper · December 2021

The crates themselves should be reworked. Let there be 3 types of crates.

Challenge Crate

Deluxe Challenge Crate
Premium Challenge Crate

Think about how we have 3 types of Distance and see where I'm going with this...

Challenge crates can be available for stars up to 1700. Let these be the current purple crates we all hate. Players that don't go higher than that in challenge, or players that do Easy Distance, get these crates.

Deluxe and Premium crates can have the same reward pool except with different percentage chances.

Deluxe Challenge crates can be available for stars up to 3400. Premium would be above 3400 and up to 5200 (so everything is split into thirds). 3 radios or 6 radios. 10 gold or 20 gold. 3 reroll tokens or 6. 3 reinforcement tokens or flare, grenade, or blast (no medpack or gore). Blue component/fragment or gold component/fragment.

Do the percentages like 20-80 (the 1:5 ratio we already see with stuff). Deluxe crates would have 80% chance low quantity reward and 20% chance high quantity reward. This should be enough to encourage lower scoring players to want to push to reach these crates. For the premium crates, set the chance of high rewards to 80%, so there will still be a chance of getting the low reward. This should have both medium scoring players lusting for more and higher scoring players genuinely pushing themselves for "another crate".

I would not have made this detailed suggestion 1 or 2 years ago. This is specifically supporting the slot machine aspect of gambling in the skin of a puzzle game with a zombie theme. I don't like this. But I'm stuck playing this game because this is the game that I play and if I'm gaming in a catch-22 then at least make this game the best version of itself it can be. This is a big step towards doing that.

Seed these boxes into Distance rewards. That will further encourage players to challenge themselves.

And a note about gore and medkits. If there were fewer of them, then they would actually have more perceived value. By flooding the market with them at equal amounts with other tools (except more in the case of medpacks), then their player value goes down because our supply remains perpetually high. If we received more flares and blasts and grenades as a result of play (they are more usable), then the flow of tools in the game would more accurately reflect the value of them based upon their usefulness.

Players do use medkits and gore. However if they were removed from daily list rewards, there would be a better balance reflected in how players actually use them.

JayZ · December 2021

ghost_pepper said:

This should have both medium scoring players lusting for more and higher scoring players genuinely pushing themselves for "another crate".

As a max-scoring end-gamer, my only incentive these days is to keep up on the leaderboard. However, I remember when I was still getting to this point, my main motivation was to pass one more round, or a few more individual missions, for a specific reward I was shooting for. Even though we have more and more "end-gamers" in the challenge because of SPMY, I suspect the vast majority of the players don't make it to round 80, so updating rewards in the way @ghost_pepper just described should have a very desirable outcome.

cyberoptics · December 2021

I just wana know how y'all are hitting above 4k I have spy and good badges and my team is 2 star purple... Apparently in just a terrible player or have wrong build. Lol

ghost_pepper · December 2021

I get grabbed, a lot, and keep pushing into the next round and the next round and the next. You get more stars by playing higher levels and better rewards from playing higher levels. The more time you have to play them, the better your chances of getting through them. So push challenge hard and early with several days of stockpiled gas. And keep pushing.

Don't waste time and gas and gold on rerunning mid range challenge levels. Keep going.

Oh, and videos. Watch videos to see if you're using a good team and how to use the team. Are you blocking spawns or timing them for charges when they show up? Which turn do you grab the gate and why? How many new special walkers of which types show up at each of the nightmare levels? There's no point in reinventing the wheel for yourself each week. Others already did and they share widely.

Cronus · December 2021

cyberoptics said:

I just wana know how y'all are hitting above 4k I have spy and good badges and my team is 2 star purple... Apparently in just a terrible player or have wrong build. Lol

Before SPY and tools to be on the leaderboard you had to understand the mechanics of the game in detail. Being able to manipulate walker movement does take some knowledge of how walker to survivor prioritization is done from a programming standpoint. Also you need to be thinking multiple moves ahead. With SPY all this, for the most part, goes to the wayside. Being forced to use the star hero has meant at least some return to using those what I will call more advanced tactics. Still not like the "old days" (pre SPY and tools) because with tools and supports you can almost get out of any bad choice you make. Key word there is almost. Sometimes there is no way out. There was a time at the highest level maps where it was everything you could do to get one star, usually using your best bruisers.

The absurdity of the rewards for the challenge

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