Will NG let the community know when Ezekiel is nerfed?

huskersoxfan
huskersoxfan Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭
I’ve resigned myself to the fact that Ezekiel’s new LT is being nerfed, despite the pleas of the community and very little explanation, and that’s okay.  I won’t spend anymore upgrade tokens, but can the powers to be let us know when this will happen so we can tidy up his spot on the bench before he returns?  Thanks!
Proud Co-Leader with Badger Hounds
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Comments

  • avelardez
    avelardez Member Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You may be one of the few who even use him or even care about his LT. 
  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You've missed out big time - he's been a beast for these couple of weeks with MS! 😎
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • ADPaq
    ADPaq Member Posts: 436 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lots of people on the forum have been using Ezekiel since his leader trait was buffed and he's made melee more fun than it has been for ages.
  • find2046
    find2046 Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    Eze token is rare for me and never bother me.
    Anyway, appreciate NG rework hero LTs.  

  • Lexia
    Lexia Member Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey!

    We've posted quite a bit on the subject already on the Forum, but here are the main points about the Ezekiel LT + push-mechanic bug:

    "Now in the case of Ezekiel - it was a bug that had a positive experiential impact, however it was very widespread and affected some fundamental combat mechanics. Leaving it untouched, would mean purposefully leaving a ‘wild card factor’ in the code, and hope that it would not result in more serious problems down the line, as we introduce more features and content. I hope that you can see how risky that would be for development, and at the same time it would make balancing more difficult."

    "We would like to ask you to not interpret this action as stubbornly fixing a bug just because it is a bug - we do see that it brings in a fun element, and makes Ezekiel a very powerful option in some cases. This isn’t a problem, but our focus is on the fact that the Push-mechanic doubles down as a guaranteed interrupt - it affects the balancing of many other things than just Ezekiel. We are working on changes and improvements to melee classes, but having this unintended interaction makes it more difficult for us to introduce them and see their impact clearly. We’re also not saying that we're definitely not bringing this interaction back in some form later on, but as it is now, we do consider it a bug to be fixed."

    The bug will be fixed as per usual in the next upcoming update.
  • huskersoxfan
    huskersoxfan Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for clarification Lexia!  I hope Melee will get great future updates to make it competitive with ranged again.

    Is it possible, or in the works to add or update a trait that lowers the damage a walker (or group of walkers) can inflict on survivors after they have been hit but not killed?  The walkers potential damage rating would be reduced as the HP drops.

    It would be a Melee exclusive trait.

    Thanks for listening and for information!
    Proud Co-Leader with Badger Hounds
  • RiotZappa
    RiotZappa Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭✭
    Remember everybody! You are NOT allowed to use anything other than SMY/SPY!

    Melee should NOT be used over level 46! We will not tolerate losing gold from ranged characters.
  • Bassreactor
    Bassreactor Member Posts: 133
    Ezekiel LT + push-mechanic bug? What next will be fixed, Decimator with 100% stun and Harpoon with 100% root?
    May be SPY strategy is a bug? Or have 3 MS in 1 battle is a bug?
    I think there is 1 bug, is the limit of maximum rankings points.
  • zeeblack
    zeeblack Member Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2022
    All of us are saying there is a bug in Ezekiel LT.

    After trying it a number of times, I am of the view that there is no bug in Ezekiel's LT. Rather, its just a great combination of Ezekiel LT and push mechanic of certain weapons. Try with a non-push mechanic weapon and you would enter into struggle with the walker.

    There are 3 weapons in my arsenal with push mechanic i.e. MS, Bulldozer and Shield.


    Ezekiel would preemptively hit a walker at the start of the turn. With the MS, he would push the walker back. Just like Ezekiel LT, Survivors in over watch and equipped with MS would also push walkers back i.e. 100% interrupt.  However, there is a catch, Ezekiel LT or over watch  activates only once per turn. If there 2 or more walkers near Ezekiel or survivor, the LT or over watch would not activate for the second walker. I tried it with Ezekiel, RGG and a shooter.  Ezekiel and RGG were able to push the walkers on over watch as well. I tried it before with Ezekiel and two hunters and Ezekiel went into struggle with the 2nd walker. Here is a pictorial of what I am saying


    Here is a video as well

    https://youtu.be/SMuP8sDh9tI


    @Lexia, Next Games would either make changes in Ezekiel LT or the weapons with push mechanics. However, you should consider this fact that a lot of players have invested heavily both in terms of time and money. You would be depriving them of both by making any changes. Since I am a casual player and don't use Ezekiel too much, I wont be affected by any changes you make.

    If NG is adamant to make the requisite changes, then also make changes to SPY/ SMY as they are way to over powered. Making changes on the opinions of a few end gamers is not right. 

    Zee Black - SG Woots - Playing since 2015.


  • find2046
    find2046 Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2022
    Comparing to Yumiko, there were more noise but NG didn't revoke her LT.  So, I believe Eze's "bug" is much serious problems and even uncertain.  e.g. some maps require to kill 3 freeman only.  So, the new LT will make those maps meaningless. 
  • zeeblack
    zeeblack Member Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭
    find2046 said:
    Comparing to Yumiko, there were more noise but NG didn't revoke her LT.  So, I believe Eze's "bug" is much serious problems and even uncertain.  e.g. some maps require to kill 3 freeman only.  So, the new LT will make those maps meaningless. 

    Previously I used 3 bruisers to accomplish the task of killing 3 humans but now it's easy peazy with Yumiko in charge

    Zee Black - SG Woots - Playing since 2015.


  • zeeblack
    zeeblack Member Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Burmeliinis, I agree to disagree. It doesn't matter even if they nerf him today. If Ezekiel is needed to be nerfed then Yumiko who is also overpowered should also be nerfed. However, she is a goldmine for NG, they would never think of nerfing her.

    I still stand by my point that the issue is in the push weapon mechanics and not Ezekiel LT. I used the shield another push mechanic weapons and there were body shots. 

    Melee has been made weak after the power strike nerf. Even perseverance is not an ideal replacement for power strike. I really doubt that NG would come with a better solution. Many of us tried but everything went on deaf ears. A game with bugs even after 6 years speak of their competence.

    People have invested their time and money on Ezekiel and MS and any nerf would put them at loss. 

    Zee Black - SG Woots - Playing since 2015.


  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2022
    @zeeblack it's Yumiko synergy with Sasha and Princess etc that is the power for ranged.

    But that mechanic is working as intended so no nerf (and thank God because as OP as it is, there's way more invested by the community at this point than there is for Zeke)

    And perhaps it's synergy like this in future additions that concern NGs. @Lexia has mentioned many times about the complex interactions between all of the code and this I think is what she's talking about. Yumiko by herself isn't that overpowered, it's the interaction with other factors and other Heroes and gear that make her so strong. If left unchecked Ezekiel could become far worse I believe is the concern. Maybe we don't see it right now because we are using him in a way that isn't overpowered. But we don't see the big picture as to what's on the table for the future and they do.

    Right now, low & mid level players that previously couldn't score very high are able to do much much better using Ezekiel lead with two assaults and bulldozers. Even without badges or pink survivors, this team is basically indestructible until you reach the body shot wall. Think about all the time and energy we've put into building all of these great badges and radios for heroes to get where we are and they could do this with no badges and blue heroes thanks to Ezekiel bug.

    I think this nerf has nothing to do with the end game. And whether we realize it or not the end gamers are still a very small minority of the community


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bruh... 




    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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  • Bassreactor
    Bassreactor Member Posts: 133
    edited January 2022
    Burmeliinis said:
    the MS should not be a guaranteed non-body shot, so all push weapons should only push when razor/piercing activates.
    Then maybe remake all the weapons? Rifles will not to be a guaranteed shoot, Scouts weapons will not to be a guaranteed hit?
    Who would use a melee weapon if they had no idea what would happen after a hit? This is why I never use Bulldozer.

    Ezekiel now do Bruiser job because Bruisers useless after 50 difficulty.
  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2022
    zeeblack said:
    I still stand by my point that the issue is in the push weapon mechanics and not Ezekiel LT. I used the shield another push mechanic weapons and there were body shots. 
    ....

    As much as I like Zeke's LT now, interaction of push weapons (MS, dozer, shield) with Zeke's LT doesn't work as intended.

    Because his LT supposed to kick-in on walker's turn and not supposed to have 100% interrupt and 100% push.
    Also:


    https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/comment/450251/#Comment_450251
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • zeeblack
    zeeblack Member Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2022
    Here is a video of RGG using Regal Authority, Overwatch and Punish on a walker. All are body shots. As far as MS is concerned, there are no body shots on main walker as per its description, so it will push the walker. So there is nothing wrong with Zeke LT, it's the push mechanics of MS. So don't nerf Zeke try to correct the push mechanics if you want. The strategy I use is to single out walker for the MS to use the no body shot ability of MS. I am still standing by my view that there is nothing wrong with Zeke LT. 

    https://youtu.be/OarVN2MmCOE

    Zee Black - SG Woots - Playing since 2015.


  • Firekid
    Firekid Member Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2022
    @zeeblack I can see your passionate about this however your video actually demonstrates the bug rather than disproves it. You just interrupted on a bodyshot which is currently not possible and is not meant to happen with zekes leadertrait and is exactly the thing which is going to be fixed. 

    As for morning star pushing on his leadertrait. As has been mentioned before the guaranteed  non bodyshot of a morning star only happens on your turn, not on the walkers turn. As such this is also bugged. His leadertrait should work as an extra overwatch and overwatch morning star hits are not guaranteed non bodyshot. 
  • ghost_pepper
    ghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any "bug" here does not outweigh the need for players to have playable mele. We've needed it for a looong time. Some of us view that as paramount, above all else. That's why all the passionate outcry occured.


  • huskersoxfan
    huskersoxfan Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭
    Best comment on page so far.  Melee needs SOMETHING to help balance the game back so melee players have a chance to be competitive again.

    Are there any suggestions you great players in here have for NG on how to even things up a bit more?  Any weapon/armor or LT traits that you can think of that will boost melee?


    Proud Co-Leader with Badger Hounds
  • Lexia
    Lexia Member Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Again, we have very much seen and heard many of these points already, and we know that you like how Ezekiel’s LT currently works with push-mechanic weapons. But please keep in mind that we are not nerfing anyone, we are fixing a bug.

    Something that I also want to point out is that we as a team are extremely aware of the current meta in the game. Because of this, we have introduced changes and new things to the game (eg. Perseverance), to see what could balance that meta.

    I understand some of these changes may not seem big or affect in the amount that some may want, but we don’t want to cause a dramatic shift either. This means adding/changing things a bit at the time, then see how it goes and what the result is. After we know more, we can again see what could be the next steps.

    We have not forgotten Melee, and you will see things in the next update already to confirm that :smile:

  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What about Bob? 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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  • zeeblack
    zeeblack Member Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is nothing wrong with Zeke LT. Just tried with a normal weapon and the walker retaliated. Charge the mechanics of push weapons and not Zeke LT. 

    NG have destroyed Melee and I fear they will further destroy them. 

    Talking about bugs, why don't they do something with the bug in Chainsaw vis-a-vis fast walkers.


    Chainsaw attack is that it hits the enemy twice. A fast walker retrofitsThe two hits should complete and then the fast walker should retaliate. However, the fast walker retaliate after the first hit and gets killed after the second hit. How many times my warrior health has gone red due to this. I don't think NG never intended this to happen. The bug was reported but it's still there

    https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/48226/fast-walkers-still-with-bug-in-last-stand

    I think NG would never correct this bug because it involves melee. 

    I think 2022 would be the last year of me playing this game. 

    Zee Black - SG Woots - Playing since 2015.


  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And then... You give and move on. 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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  • Lexia
    Lexia Member Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear you feel that way @zeeblack

    With the Chainsaw - unfortunately it has been a difficult case to reproduce, which makes it even more difficult to fix. If you have more to share on that, please to share with support as it may very well help us find the cause and then allow us look into the fix after that.

    I know it may be annoying, but with a lot of things going on, we may not always remember certain things that have been discussed or brought up. I do encourage to ask if there is anything, and I'll always aim to get back with more information whenever possible.
  • huskersoxfan
    huskersoxfan Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭
    Lexia said:

    Again, we have very much seen and heard many of these points already, and we know that you like how Ezekiel’s LT currently works with push-mechanic weapons. But please keep in mind that we are not nerfing anyone, we are fixing a bug.

    Something that I also want to point out is that we as a team are extremely aware of the current meta in the game. Because of this, we have introduced changes and new things to the game (eg. Perseverance), to see what could balance that meta.

    I understand some of these changes may not seem big or affect in the amount that some may want, but we don’t want to cause a dramatic shift either. This means adding/changing things a bit at the time, then see how it goes and what the result is. After we know more, we can again see what could be the next steps.

    We have not forgotten Melee, and you will see things in the next update already to confirm that :smile:

    That sounds great, can’t wait to see improvements!  Thanks!
    Proud Co-Leader with Badger Hounds
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