🎰 Survivor Traits Rerolling 🎲 🔁 ♾️

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

Everyone knows rerolling traits is quite a gamble and takes a long time to get it right. Reroll tokens are one of the most expensive and hard to come by commodities in NML.

I'm suggesting to improve rerolling mechanics a bit: instead of excluding only 2 cancelled traits for the next round, make rerolling cycle through ALL possible traits (on canceling) before offering previously cancelled options again.

This improvement will cap the max number of rerolls needed to get desired traits and will make gameplay much more enjoyable for growing players 👍
@Lexia @Fluxxx

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

↑
The same mechanics could be applied to rerolling badge bonuses, which is an even bigger slot machine.

Currently it can take 500-600 reroll tokens (or more) just to get desired bonus on 1 single badge. That's an insane amount of tokens for the average player, unless you're an endgamer with several thousand reroll tokens laying around.

Yikes · January 2022

How about offering a more expensive reroll option where you can spend 100 reroll tokens (instead of 50) and get a choice of 4 traits to choose from instead of 2? It still wouldn’t be 100% but the odds of getting what you want would be a lot better.

I would use the 50 tokens options when I have 2 or more traits to reroll and the 100 tokens option when I have 1 or 2 traits to reroll. This will reduce the frustration for the reroll of that last trait.

echonap · January 2022

Yikes said:

How about offering a more expensive reroll option where you can spend 100 reroll tokens (instead of 50) and get a choice of 4 traits to choose from instead of 2? It still wouldn’t be 100% but the odds of getting what you want would be a lot better.

I would use the 50 tokens options when I have 2 or more traits to reroll and the 100 tokens option when I have 1 or 2 traits to reroll. This will reduce the frustration for the reroll of that last trait.

How is this better than now, where you spend 50 rerolls to see 2 traits, and if they both aren’t what you want, you spend another 50 to see two new ones? You’re still paying 100 to see 4 traits, but if you get lucky with the first 2, you only pay 50.

Yikes · January 2022

echonap said:

How is this better than now, where you spend 50 rerolls to see 2 traits, and if they both aren’t what you want, you spend another 50 to see two new ones? You’re still paying 100 to see 4 traits, but if you get lucky with the first 2, you only pay 50.

You’re right. In my mind, I was eliminating the 4 I don’t want from a subsequent roll (like how we’re eliminating 2 right now). Maybe a roll using 100 tokens can offer 5 traits and only 2 will not repeat kind of like getting a discount if you buy in bulk.

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

Yikes said:

echonap said:

How is this better than now, where you spend 50 rerolls to see 2 traits, and if they both aren’t what you want, you spend another 50 to see two new ones? You’re still paying 100 to see 4 traits, but if you get lucky with the first 2, you only pay 50.

You’re right. In my mind, I was eliminating the 4 I don’t want from a subsequent roll (like how we’re eliminating 2 right now). Maybe a roll using 100 tokens can offer 5 traits and only 2 will not repeat kind of like getting a discount if you buy in bulk.

Now this could work, but only if:

1. 4-5 traits are offered for 100 tokens.
2. If cancelled, all these 4-5 traits are excluded from the next reroll.
3. Regular 2-trait-reroll option is still available for 50 tokens.
[40/80 tokens for non-heroes]

But I still think my suggestion from the original post could be more beneficial and less complicated.

Yikes · January 2022

Only problem I see with cycling through all traits is if you got 2 traits you want on a roll but can only keep 1. Now that other desired trait will be expensive as you wait for all the traits to cycle.

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

Yikes said:

Only problem I see with cycling through all traits is if you got 2 traits you want on a roll but can only keep 1. Now that other desired trait will be expensive as you wait for all the traits to cycle.

It won't be excluded, because you accepted the 1 you need (did not cancel). So when you reroll another trait - it will be a brand new roll with all possible options available in the pool of choices

Yikes · January 2022

Got it. Accepting a replacement trait resets the list of what was rejected. Would definitely be better than what we have now.

ghost_pepper · January 2022

FuriousMoldovan said:

↑
The same mechanics could be applied to rerolling badge bonuses, which is an even bigger slot machine.

Currently it can take 500-600 reroll tokens (or more) just to get desired bonus on 1 single badge. That's an insane amount of tokens for the average player, unless you're an endgamer with several thousand reroll tokens laying around.

Eliminating ALL hero bonuses should occur after rejecting a SINGLE hero bonus.

We players view each of them as a collective undesirable result. The worst of the worst. The programming in the game treats each unique hero bonus as a unique result. There is an enormous gap here between player experience and game coding.

We've been bring up this qol fix since bonus rerolls we're introduced. Nothing. Not even a public comment about it.

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

@ghost_pepper yes there are many problems with badge bonus rerolling and some good solutions have been offered but might be not too easy to implement.

My point is that cycling through all possible traits before offering previously cancelled options (for both traits and badge bonus rerolling) is very simple change and doesn't take many dev-hours to make it happen.
But it will make gaming experience much more pleasant 👍

iosononegan · January 2022

All hero bonuses should be eliminated, especially now with star hero.

Yikes · January 2022

+1 to remove hero badge bonuses. At the very least, make the hero bonus apply to the hero wearing the badge as well as other members of the team. It would still be undesirable but at least some badges with this bonus can still be useful.

ghost_pepper · January 2022

Removing the hero bonus from rerolls entirely should be easy for NG and, though not perfect for players, is a fantastic solution because of being easy to implement. Cycling through traits and classes, that's closer to acceptable.

Removing hero bonus from crafting is not practical.

ATLAS-Z · January 2022

ghost_pepper said:

Removing the hero bonus from rerolls entirely should be easy for NG and, though not perfect for players, is a fantastic solution because of being easy to implement. Cycling through traits and classes, that's closer to acceptable.

Removing hero bonus from crafting is not practical.

I like it.

Burmeliinis · January 2022

FuriousMoldovan said:

↑
The same mechanics could be applied to rerolling badge bonuses, which is an even bigger slot machine.

Currently it can take 500-600 reroll tokens (or more) just to get desired bonus on 1 single badge. That's an insane amount of tokens for the average player, unless you're an endgamer with several thousand reroll tokens laying around.

For badge rerolls this is mostly implemented already:

From 3.12 update notes: (https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/45878/3-12-hellfrost-update-notes#latest)

Set/Slot rerolls: Previous results are now restricted until all of the options have been cycled through. After that, the restrictions are reset

Bonus Condition rerolls: Previous 10 results are continuously restricted.

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

Burmeliinis said:

FuriousMoldovan said:

↑
The same mechanics could be applied to rerolling badge bonuses, which is an even bigger slot machine.

Currently it can take 500-600 reroll tokens (or more) just to get desired bonus on 1 single badge. That's an insane amount of tokens for the average player, unless you're an endgamer with several thousand reroll tokens laying around.

For badge rerolls this is mostly implemented already:

From 3.12 update notes: (https://forums.nextgames.com/walkingdead/discussion/45878/3-12-hellfrost-update-notes#latest)

Set/Slot rerolls: Previous results are now restricted until all of the options have been cycled through. After that, the restrictions are reset
Bonus Condition rerolls: Previous 10 results are continuously restricted.

Right, I suggested this for badge bonus rerolling and survivor traits rerolling. Similar to what they already did for sets/slots rerolling.

Burmeliinis · January 2022

Yeah, not sure why they limited it to the most recent 10 rerolls only for the bonus condition.

ghost_pepper · January 2022

I thought fluxx said something about that's the limit of what the passive game memory can take for a thing like trait rerolling.

If there is that sort of limitation, then remove ALL hero bonus conditions, then we have traits and classes to deal with. Have each slot machine reroll chance give us 5 results from the pool of traits and classes. If we reject all 5, those go into the rejection pile. We reroll again and get 5 new selections, excluding those previous 5. We reject those 5, now the reject pool is 10.

There are more than 5 remaining traits and classes if rejecting 10 prior ones.

So, in theory a player could continue to cycle endlessly. I think we may have to accept this. My assumption is that ng wants us to have the chance to cycle endlessly. This has been universally disapproved of by every single player who has voiced this issue, in every language, since being introduced. NG hasn't changed it, so they must want it this way.

The big change if moving to this idea is that it takes an unpalatable system filled with hero bonus crap with highly likely infinite loop madness and repackages it into a far more palatable system of less crappy and less likely, but still possible, system of infinite loop madness.

-Players hunting for the lucky trait may still be at it for quite some time. There will be a different experience though with the impression of "more chance".

-Players who generally don't mind going with an offensive or defensive build, or sticking exactly with the current meta, can shed unfavorable badge traits for more favorable traits easily and continue to play casually. Class bonuses may actually be preferred in this case.

-Players new to the process will have a completely different experience. Positivity among new players is always important for retention.

Thoughts?

Yikes · January 2022

A quick fix is to reduce the cost of rerolls for badge bonuses. Cap it at 10 reroll tokens per roll. Still wouldn’t be cheap but it’s better than the ridiculous price of 25 per roll right now.

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

Yikes said:

A quick fix is to reduce the cost of rerolls for badge bonuses. Cap it at 10 reroll tokens per roll. Still wouldn’t be cheap but it’s better than the ridiculous price of 25 per roll right now.

I could live with that too for badge bonuses rerolls - flat 10 reroll tokens, no increased cost.

ATLAS-Z · January 2022

Hello new weekend event

FuriousMoldovan · January 2022

FuriousMoldovan said:

Everyone knows rerolling traits is quite a gamble and takes a long time to get it right. Reroll tokens are one of the most expensive and hard to come by commodities in NML.

I'm suggesting to improve rerolling mechanics a bit: instead of excluding only 2 cancelled traits for the next round, make rerolling cycle through ALL possible traits (on canceling) before offering previously cancelled options again.

This improvement will cap the max number of rerolls needed to get desired traits and will make gameplay much more enjoyable for growing players 👍
@Lexia @Fluxxx

@Lexia is it doable in the near future?

Yikes · March 2022

Time to revisit this topic on survivor trait reroll. I’m up to about 10 rerolls trying to get Perseverance on scout Rick on my alt and still don’t have it. It’s so demoralizing and frustrating not to be able to make progress

I’m going to offer another suggestion that I’m hoping is easy to implement. Right now, the game is tracking the last 2 traits that were rejected so that it doesn’t come up on the next reroll. Please also track the number of times the player reject all options and keep the original trait. It’s a single number. Then for each time the replacement traits were rejected, offer some number of discount for the next reroll. For example, if the player rejects 5 times and the discount is 5 tokens for each rejection, then the discount for that survivor’s trait reroll should be reduced by 25. Once a trait replacement is accepted, the number of rejection is set back to zero and the discount is also zero. This way, there’s a mercy mechanism in place so that at least the player know there’s a chance to get the desired trait eventually and progress is always made even if the desired trait did not show up.

Right now, I’m just back to square one even after spending 500 reroll tokens. Grrr…

ghost_pepper · March 2022

Since my TL,DR above didn't get any traction, I guess I'll just post this.

DoesNotMatter · March 2022

When things like this get ignored, it's deliberate. These companies have their own secret lingo such as "player retention" and "player engagement," "player spending" etc.. In other words, certain aspects are purposefully unattainable or difficult, so as to increase spending, encourage engagement, and maintain retention.

They also are fully AWARE, and by design, withhold certain aspects to only offer it in limited quantities or charge exorbitant fees for it. Certain degree of psychology is involved too unfortunately and exploited, such as "It's free, so guess $15 or $50 is OK as it goes to the devs" whereas $15 is what a AAA expansion might run on a console game and $50 is an actual AAA game. Player Retention then causes the same person to pay more over time using the same rationale. I played another game where people were spending upwards of $60k which is beyond reason and egregious. Those devs however acted not unlike big tobacco and took the public stance of "people being free to do as they please" as they were getting rich with little work on their end.

With this game, they charge $15 for a gun that barely has anything different than something you can get from scavenge chests and they sprinkle in gold and radios to entice. Then they get more from the ads. If it was 0.25 for a gun, then maybe not egregious, but $15 or more is exploitative for people that have no restraint or gambling compulsions, etc..

ghost_pepper · March 2022

I spent a night in Vegas on spring break once. That's all I spent. I didn't let go of 1 single dollar the whole time.

I don't just throw my money down out in the street. I'm not going to gamble it in Vegas and I'm sure as hell not going to gamble it in this game.

Too soon to post another casino gif.
Maybe next time.

Yikes · March 2022

@Lexia please tell us the team is doing something about trait rerolls on next release. I’m on roll 13 (that’s 650 reroll tokens) and still not getting Perseverance on scout Rick. The reroll system is really broken. Mercy please.

pollorex · March 2022

I'm trying to get lucky on my tdog for 2 months more or less. I spent all tokens now waiting to get more

Yikes · April 2022

So, on my 18th reroll today, I finally got Perseverance on Survivalist Rick. That was a soul crushing 900 reroll tokens and 1900 Rick tokens for one trait. Just glad that nightmare is over.

FuriousMoldovan · April 2022

FuriousMoldovan said:

Everyone knows rerolling traits is quite a gamble and takes a long time to get it right. Reroll tokens are one of the most expensive and hard to come by commodities in NML.

I'm suggesting to improve rerolling mechanics a bit: instead of excluding only 2 cancelled traits for the next round, make rerolling cycle through ALL possible traits (on canceling) before offering previously cancelled options again.

This improvement will cap the max number of rerolls needed to get desired traits and will make gameplay much more enjoyable for growing players 👍
@Lexia @Fluxxx

↑↑ @Lexia @Fluxxx is there a chance this will be improved or no hope whatsoever?

🎰 Survivor Traits Rerolling 🎲 🔁 ♾️

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