⭐ STAR HERO OPEN DISCUSSION

ATLAS-Z
ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

 

Fluxxx said:
7. Is it possible to make the Star Hero on the challenge week not be the leader, but a member of the team?
7. It's possible, but this was an intentional decision to diversify teams that players play. Without this leader requirement, it would be easy for players to default to their regular teams, with one replacement in most cases


I often support or at least understand many of the decisions and changes, updates etc that the Devs make, maybe not at first, but after some thought things usually make sense. 

... By this one nagged at me. Kicking around in the back of my head while I'm at work even.  And no matter how many angles i look at it, i have to disagree with you @Fluxxx

Maybe that don't matter because your the Dev and I'm just a player, my reasons and conclusions are below. 👇 (constructive and respectful)

_______________________________________

WHY I THINK STAR HERO DOES NOT "DIVERSIFY TEAMS" 

* To take advantage of star hero you have to have them in the leader position.

* there are only a handful of heroes who's leader traits actually make them valuable leaders. During these weeks I would say that I agree with @Fluxxx response to @bronik_dark above ☝️ to a point. 

* most weeks however we have a "less than ideal" hero, like Carl last week. 

* when this happens, there's VERY few options left to players. The even smaller pool of heroes who can function and limp on semi effectively without any leader at all. (ie Princess, Mercer, Yumiko)

* so @Fluxxx the "Diversity" you speak of had been whittled down to this ☝️... Using the same 3 heroes +star hero in every Mission which is exactly what you are saying you were trying to avoid.

_______________________________________

WHY I THINK STAR HERO AS A "FOLLOWER" COULD HELP DIVERSIFY TEAMS

* If the Star Hero was not required to be leader, then each of the 8 to 10 actually useful Top heroes could potentially make an appearance as leader with star hero, and useful third party member. Swapping out between them many times in a single challenge. Sure you'll still get lots of PMY + star hero but at least players COULD pop in Some Beta or Zeke or Guardian Carol etc if they WANTED to...

* Options = Diversity (right now we have no options, no diversity.)

* 80% of heroes of heroes right now your team is: Star Hero +Princess/Mercer +Yumiko. 

Every week. 


Consider the following:

  • Remove star hero

  • Make star hero a follow or leader

  • Consider multiple star heroes


_______________________________________

SUMMARY 

Star hero as it stands now does not offer diverse team compositions. Consider these and other player suggested changes to help inject some ACTUAL diverse team compositions. 










#Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

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Comments

  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry for the @ghost_pepper long winded post

    😘🤘🤘


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
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    DresdenDeathwish19ghost_pepper
  • ShadowWalker
    ShadowWalker Member Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That answer was bugging me as well. If @Fluxxx had said it was done to create more of a challenge, then that would be an understandable point of view. However, it does not diversify the teams.

    This even hurt low tier heroes like Governor/Maggie and Tara (@Lexia favorite) who at least got some action in the lower levels as a leader, but now I don't use them at all in the Challenge, except for their Star Hero week.
    ATLAS-ZRiotZappa
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree @ShadowWalker if the "more challenging" card had been played, i would lean more heavily on the idea of multiple star heroes in one week. An idea i pitched to them long ago. 

    But diversity.... Mmmmmmm noooo lol


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
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    Sarge_
  • Cronus
    Cronus Member Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a weekly member of the 5358 club, after about round 50 or so (sometimes up to round 60) it becomes Star Hero - Princess/Mercer - Yumiko without fail. If the point of the star hero was to bring diversity to the game it didn't succeed. We've had a large enough sampling now over the weeks since its implementation. If anything it's put Sasha on the bench for the challenge. Truth be told if you can have Governor or hunter Maggie as the star hero and still be undeterred from reaching 5358 it tells you all you have to know. The 2nd cycle through of a star hero will have fewer people making investments in that hero compared to the initial time. The majority will have already done the upgrades at that time. Make Beth the star hero again? She's already badged and rerolled. This is the case with the other heroes already done.

    I do agree it would be more fun if the star hero didn't have to be the leader.
    Sarge_Anjelos
  • ADPaq
    ADPaq Member Posts: 436 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    There was a very long thread about nerfing Yumiko as she led to overuse of SPY and little to no diversity.


    I argued in said thread that there was nothing compelling the use of SPY and now here we are after the natural introduction of an attempt to force diversification.

    Perhaps it's worth heeding be careful what you wish for this time round.

  • WellyLuga
    WellyLuga Member Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    Yeah I have to agree, it is funny to look back at think how sure I was that it would affect the challenge standings and how wrong I was. I don't know what the answer is to bring the 'challenge' back but change is definitely needed to bring the fun back. 

    As the others said I miss the variety, both in the build up and across the 6 maps in general. I think a double star hero is definitely needed, one melee and one ranged. Then you could have a dual class bonus like there used to be. Charged hunters/increased scout damage. Warriors with scout range, assaults charge up off 1 less (since apparantly we can't have them start charged). Increased shooter damage/bruisers can't be critically hit. Things like that, the challenge is already easy it's not like having these are going to make a different but will improve enjoyment. 
    FirekidATLAS-ZKilldozer187_Stalker20
  • Killdozer187_
    Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I want what the @Governator has been asking for years.

     I think we all know
    Stalker20GovernatorBigBob
  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry @Fluxxx but initial quoted intention of SH being a leader lead to exactly the opposite - almost no diversification:
    Majority of rounds with the same SH lead and Princess+Yumiko or Mercer+Yumiko trailing.

    Having SH on a team (in any position) instead of leader - that's what would allow diversification:
    would be able to use different leaders and team composition 💯
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
  • euchid
    euchid Member Posts: 417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just extend the challenge to 86 rounds and make the last 6 rounds alot harder. This should be easy to code.
  • ultimateevil13
    ultimateevil13 Member Posts: 36
    Geben Sie Ihren thanks to starheld i completely lost interest in HF. HF used to be my favorite mode.
    as often written Starheld , princess & yumiko.just bored and no fun.starheld away again and lift the round limit again ein
  • Hellnight
    Hellnight Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
    What I deduce from these changes:
    Finishing the challenge in round 80 and creating the features of Mercer, Princess and Yumiko were done to remove the weekly challenge as the main mode to the detriment of the wars, since its conformation of maps makes many average players suffer more damage than in the challenge. It also makes only 4 heroes ideal for war, increasing the chance of in-game purchases.
    Looking for more purchases, the star hero is introduced (since the most competitive players lowered their purchases due to the dominance of SPY SMY teams).
    The majority of players for their part applied
     solutions like playing challenge with a star hero only until it gets complicated, or using Rosita in war for not being able (or wanting) to buy a tactical decimator and a flaming crossbow (I don't know the name of this weapon that cripples and burns in English), to so try to avoid the war mechanic that creates diagonal patterns so that charging an assault is reduced from three spaces to two.
    I think there has been a fairly significant abandonment of players, so the last attempt to play it regularly is the survival pass, making it beneficial only for payment
  • Hellnight
    Hellnight Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2022
    Conclusion: The imbalances that this produces in the gameplay make the game constantly change course
    打不过就跑RiotZappa
  • 打不过就跑
    打不过就跑 Member Posts: 41
    有没有想过低等级的玩家有多挣扎?原本4878的挑战奖励被拉长延后到5358,那是针对明星英雄可以使用并且有战斗力的情况下!对于高级玩家明星英雄增加了他们的奖励,多样性?挑战性?还不是X+Princess+Yumiko 或 X+Mercer+Yumiko,中低级别玩家没有从明星英雄中获得任何好处!!!!
  • Killdozer187_
    Killdozer187_ Member Posts: 920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sums up playing with non rerolled Duhwhite
    Phalanx44ShadowWalkerATLAS-Zm4s
  • BigBob
    BigBob Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    Star Hero has pretty much dictated who I update. Some of them would still be warming their hands on the bench, if not for the Star Hero. 
    MudMoccasin
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    *scratching chin* 🤔🤔🤔🤔


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
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    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • ghost_pepper
    ghost_pepper Member Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ATLAS-Z said:
    Sorry for the @ghost_pepper long winded post

    😘🤘🤘
    I missed the joy of your shout out. Thank you. It made me smile. 😁

    I was busy not making this game anywhere close to being important to me. For me, this game is now that one-foot-out-the-door kinda thing. I missed the Hershel tokens from the campaign just now despite my x2 distance rests. I didn't bother messaging support to ask why. There's no point. Support says "No" like the word is going out of style. I don't even know why they use the word Support to describe the team when litterally that's not the player experience for contacting them. There are so few direct player contact opportunities and NG policy is to simply be a hard ass about everything.

    I don't play distance because I almost never use tools in challenge anymore and I haven't crafted in 2 years. I don't play LS because I have lvl 2 dog and mask but only ever use 1 of them at a time anyway. I don't care about Outpost. I never scavenge. I don't even do the daily if it's for a Gore because screw that.

    I play challenge because it's something to do. I play gw because it's something to do. And the only reason I do these things is because I'm in group of awesome players who are as equally satisfied as I am at constantly underperforming. Nobody cares about our wins and losses and nobody cares about stars. We've each entered our own version of ennui with NML and been able to balance it within our group.

    It takes a truly epic fail in the game to even get me to come to the forum anymore. What would I even do? Make the same comments already made about the same ideas already expressed? Nah...

    You know you missed these long winded rants. 🥰
    ATLAS-ZRiotZappaFirekids7eyeW8ZXerBilldinger
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @ghost_pepper thanks GP i smiled. 😊


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
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    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • Le_Mat
    Le_Mat Member Posts: 221
    I think we can all agree that we understood the initial intention, which was to use different teams, try to make up for SPY, and I believe that to a certain extent it's been helpful. I never liked the idea, but the intention was there.

    Can we change it now for any of these amazing suggestions @Lexia @Fluxxx? Pretty please? I don't think anyone would complain (you can never be sure, tho 😅).
    -----
     <3 
    "The world is a stage, but the play is badly cast..."
    Oscar Wilde
  • Muirna
    Muirna Member Posts: 142
    edited August 2022
    If you want more difficulty and diversity, you could add an Expert Challenge mode. Only have 3 heroes per week, no survivors, and you can use any of the 3 heroes as leader. That would definitely be harder, at least for me. I'm not advocating this, but it would have a different impact than one star hero per week and the team of Star Hero, Princess, Yumiko.

    One option would be 3 random heroes set per week. The other idea would be get the community to design the teams of 3 that are cycled through, so that the teams have some semblance of being able to work together.