Weakening trait on a bruiser?

Carl_Tyreese999
Carl_Tyreese999 Member Posts: 139 ✭✭✭
in General No Man's Land Discussion
Here's a "unicorn" bruiser I was thinking about training and upgrading but wanted to get her traits right first. My question for the endgamers is: is weakening a good trait for bruisers? And is it better than something like perseverance? Thanks.
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  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes and yes but why not get both. Cheers


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    WellyLugaFuriousMoldovanCarl_Tyreese999BenjaminT
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  • WellyLuga
    WellyLuga Member Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agreed, I think the new 'unicorn' non hero bruiser traits are punish, dodge, lucky, perserverance and weakening.
    FuriousMoldovanCarl_Tyreese999m4sBenjaminTxeniia
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  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right, that's the new non-hero unicorn ↑
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  • Cronus
    Cronus Member Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So for a hero bruiser what are the new unicorn traits? What gets sacrificed to bring weakening onboard? If you have to have punish, weakening and perseverance, does lucky or dodge make the final cut? My badges are going to suffer big time either way. Perseverance for retaliate already made them take a hit. Would be nice to have melee somewhat relevant again however the tax to pay on badges is too high. Need some relief there.
    BenjaminTWellyLuga
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  • avelardez
    avelardez Member Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These are my two I am trying out. 
    ShadowWalkerCarl_Tyreese999
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  • liorsalman
    liorsalman Member Posts: 314 ✭✭✭✭
    avelardez said:

    These are my two I am trying out. 
    I would recommend you dropping punish from t dog because of is LT
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Cronus said:
    So for a hero bruiser what are the new unicorn traits? What gets sacrificed to bring weakening onboard? If you have to have punish, weakening and perseverance, does lucky or dodge make the final cut? My badges are going to suffer big time either way. Perseverance for retaliate already made them take a hit. Would be nice to have melee somewhat relevant again however the tax to pay on badges is too high. Need some relief there.

    I think a lot of people are leaning towards Punish, Weaken, Perseverance, Lucky for most. But some people are leaning towards Punish, Weaken, Dodge, Lucky for Eugene. A few different ideas for T-Dog are floating around…

    liorsalman     said:
    avelardez said:

    These are my two I am trying out. 
    I would recommend you dropping punish from t dog because of is LT
    Or how about dropping Perseverance? Between Lucky, Punish and Weaken he’s going to charge up very quickly. I’m not sure Perseverance is needed. At least punish is an extra chance to stun as well as charge 
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  • Novell
    Novell Member Posts: 249 ✭✭✭
    I also think PSV can be switch to weak, because with weak you have a 75% chance to charge.
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  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Cronus said:
    So for a hero bruiser what are the new unicorn traits? What gets sacrificed to bring weakening onboard? If you have to have punish, weakening and perseverance, does lucky or dodge make the final cut? My badges are going to suffer big time either way. Perseverance for retaliate already made them take a hit. Would be nice to have melee somewhat relevant again however the tax to pay on badges is too high. Need some relief there.

    I don't think there is a "unicorn" melee hero build anymore. The presence of so many good options means players will need to find what works best for their needs. And builds may vary. 


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  • ADPaq
    ADPaq Member Posts: 436 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Novell said:
    I also think PSV can be switch to weak, because with weak you have a 75% chance to charge.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you have a percentage chance to inflict weakening and then a 75% chance to get charged.

    So at level 5 you have a 33% to inflict weakening and then a 75% chance to get charged. Wouldn't that give 24.75% overall charge probability?
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    ADPaq said:
    Novell said:
    I also think PSV can be switch to weak, because with weak you have a 75% chance to charge.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you have a percentage chance to inflict weakening and then a 75% chance to get charged.

    So at level 5 you have a 33% to inflict weakening and then a 75% chance to get charged. Wouldn't that give 24.75% overall charge probability?

    Two points to add in are how much Lucky you have in your build, and also that everyone has a chance to charge off a weakened enemy
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  • ADPaq
    ADPaq Member Posts: 436 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both fair points but the 75% comment I quoted feels a bit misleading.
    Cronus
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    ADPaq said:
    Both fair points but the 75% comment I quoted feels a bit misleading.
    That’s fair. It’s not really how it actually works.


    Here’s my RGG. Lucky 20%, PSV 33%, Weakening 36%. 
    If an uncharged RGG runs up to hit a single walker his actual chance to get a charge point from PSV is 39.6%.

    His actual chance to weaken them is 43.2%, with a 90% chance of getting a charge point from that that attack IF Weakening is inflicted. Which means the initial chance of getting a charge point was 38.88%. But if my RGG had 33% luck built in (armour or weapon) then chance to get a charge point from Weaken would be 100%. Anything at 75% probability only needs 33% lucky in the build to make it a certainty.

    So the probability of getting a charge point from either is pretty similar.

    What makes Weakening so much more powerful is the rest of the things it does. 
    1. If RGG does inflict weakening then it’s a guaranteed stun regardless of Walker level. That’s game changing for bruisers at high levels.

    2. Weakened status applies for a whole turn, so if RGG inflicts Weakened I know my other two heroes are guaranteed (assuming they have 33% Lucky in their build) to charge off that walker if they attack it. They’re also guaranteed to not be body shots.

    3. Perseverance only applies to attacks made on your turn, Weakening applies to all attacks. Which means you have a chance to charge from Punish, Primed, Retaliate, etc. as well as your normal attacks. So that 38.88% figure from earlier applies to every single time RGG swings his stick at something. For PSV THE 39.6% only applies to swings on my turn.
    Cronus
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  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    @Agoatrodeo
    Right, only it's 34% (not 33) Lucky needed with 75% trait chance to have a over a 100% overall.
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    FuriousMoldovan said:
    @Agoatrodeo
    Right, only it's 34% (not 33) Lucky needed with 75% trait chance to have a over a 100% overall.

    Is this for definite? I remember reading all % with a decimal are rounded up. So 75% x 1.33 = 99.75% becomes 100%. Though now I think of it I didn’t get this from an official source
    Took me a while to figure out how you’d get a build with 34% Lucky but I guess lvl 3 Lucky on the hero and Gold Lucky on a weapon/armour would do it?
    For the people who don’t want to do maths the rule is simple… any hero with level 5 Lucky and silver Lucky on either a weapon or an armour will turn a 75% probability into a 99.75% probability
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  • Cronus
    Cronus Member Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agoatrodeo said:
    FuriousMoldovan said:
    @Agoatrodeo
    Right, only it's 34% (not 33) Lucky needed with 75% trait chance to have a over a 100% overall.

    Is this for definite? I remember reading all % with a decimal are rounded up. So 75% x 1.33 = 99.75% becomes 100%. Though now I think of it I didn’t get this from an official source
    Took me a while to figure out how you’d get a build with 34% Lucky but I guess lvl 3 Lucky on the hero and Gold Lucky on a weapon/armour would do it?
    For the people who don’t want to do maths the rule is simple… any hero with level 5 Lucky and silver Lucky on either a weapon or an armour will turn a 75% probability into a 99.75% probability
    I believe it only becomes rounded on what you see however the actual implementation of the value is the true, unrounded number. So even though visually you see 100%, the calculation used by the game is the true number of 99.75%.
    BenjaminT
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Cronus said:
    Agoatrodeo said:
    FuriousMoldovan said:
    @Agoatrodeo
    Right, only it's 34% (not 33) Lucky needed with 75% trait chance to have a over a 100% overall.

    Is this for definite? I remember reading all % with a decimal are rounded up. So 75% x 1.33 = 99.75% becomes 100%. Though now I think of it I didn’t get this from an official source
    Took me a while to figure out how you’d get a build with 34% Lucky but I guess lvl 3 Lucky on the hero and Gold Lucky on a weapon/armour would do it?
    For the people who don’t want to do maths the rule is simple… any hero with level 5 Lucky and silver Lucky on either a weapon or an armour will turn a 75% probability into a 99.75% probability
    I believe it only becomes rounded on what you see however the actual implementation of the value is the true, unrounded number. So even though visually you see 100%, the calculation used by the game is the true number of 99.75%.
    Aha! That’s interesting, so I had it the wrong way round then? Good to know, thanks for sharing  :)
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  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Agoatrodeo said:
    FuriousMoldovan said:
    @Agoatrodeo
    Right, only it's 34% (not 33) Lucky needed with 75% trait chance to have a over a 100% overall.

    Is this for definite? I remember reading all % with a decimal are rounded up. So 75% x 1.33 = 99.75% becomes 100%. Though now I think of it I didn’t get this from an official source
    Took me a while to figure out how you’d get a build with 34% Lucky but I guess lvl 3 Lucky on the hero and Gold Lucky on a weapon/armour would do it?
    For the people who don’t want to do maths the rule is simple… any hero with level 5 Lucky and silver Lucky on either a weapon or an armour will turn a 75% probability into a 99.75% probability

    It's not rounded and you won't see it anywhere in-game. But tried and tested on Cripple 99.75% and these 0.25% fail will get you when you need it the most 😆

    To have guaranteed trait activation with a 75% chance trait (like golden cripple), you want at least 34% Lucky overall:
    Lucky lvl 6 + gear with silver Lucky
    OR
    Lucky lvl 3 + gear with golden Lucky 
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  • Cronus
    Cronus Member Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Should have clarified the "see it" comment I made in my post. I was referring to badges in this case. The badge value gets rounded but the game actually uses the non rounded value. Just using it for a point of reference.
    FuriousMoldovan
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Agoatrodeo said:
    ADPaq said:
    Both fair points but the 75% comment I quoted feels a bit misleading.
    That’s fair. It’s not really how it actually works.


    Here’s my RGG. Lucky 20%, PSV 33%, Weakening 36%. 
    If an uncharged RGG runs up to hit a single walker his actual chance to get a charge point from PSV is 39.6%.

    His actual chance to weaken them is 43.2%, with a 90% chance of getting a charge point from that that attack IF Weakening is inflicted. Which means the initial chance of getting a charge point was 38.88%. But if my RGG had 33% luck built in (armour or weapon) then chance to get a charge point from Weaken would be 100%. Anything at 75% probability only needs 33% lucky in the build to make it a certainty.

    So the probability of getting a charge point from either is pretty similar.

    What makes Weakening so much more powerful is the rest of the things it does. 
    1. If RGG does inflict weakening then it’s a guaranteed stun regardless of Walker level. That’s game changing for bruisers at high levels.

    2. Weakened status applies for a whole turn, so if RGG inflicts Weakened I know my other two heroes are guaranteed (assuming they have 33% Lucky in their build) to charge off that walker if they attack it. They’re also guaranteed to not be body shots.

    3. Perseverance only applies to attacks made on your turn, Weakening applies to all attacks. Which means you have a chance to charge from Punish, Primed, Retaliate, etc. as well as your normal attacks. So that 38.88% figure from earlier applies to every single time RGG swings his stick at something. For PSV THE 39.6% only applies to swings on my turn.
    Realised I forgot another difference…

    4. Perseverance applies only when you fail to kill, Weakening can give an additional charge point when you kill an enemy, too. 
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  • find2046
    find2046 Member Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    How about Gabriel?  Does his hero traits work with PSV & WKN?
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  • m4s
    m4s Member Posts: 681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2022
    Agoatrodeo said:
    Agoatrodeo said:
    ADPaq said:
    Both fair points but the 75% comment I quoted feels a bit misleading.
    That’s fair. It’s not really how it actually works.


    Here’s my RGG. Lucky 20%, PSV 33%, Weakening 36%. 
    If an uncharged RGG runs up to hit a single walker his actual chance to get a charge point from PSV is 39.6%.

    His actual chance to weaken them is 43.2%, with a 90% chance of getting a charge point from that that attack IF Weakening is inflicted. Which means the initial chance of getting a charge point was 38.88%. But if my RGG had 33% luck built in (armour or weapon) then chance to get a charge point from Weaken would be 100%. Anything at 75% probability only needs 33% lucky in the build to make it a certainty.

    So the probability of getting a charge point from either is pretty similar.

    What makes Weakening so much more powerful is the rest of the things it does. 
    1. If RGG does inflict weakening then it’s a guaranteed stun regardless of Walker level. That’s game changing for bruisers at high levels.

    2. Weakened status applies for a whole turn, so if RGG inflicts Weakened I know my other two heroes are guaranteed (assuming they have 33% Lucky in their build) to charge off that walker if they attack it. They’re also guaranteed to not be body shots.

    3. Perseverance only applies to attacks made on your turn, Weakening applies to all attacks. Which means you have a chance to charge from Punish, Primed, Retaliate, etc. as well as your normal attacks. So that 38.88% figure from earlier applies to every single time RGG swings his stick at something. For PSV THE 39.6% only applies to swings on my turn.
    Realised I forgot another difference…

    4. Perseverance applies only when you fail to kill, Weakening can give an additional charge point when you kill an enemy, too. 
    If you kill - You got point charge - works like Perseverance right?
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    You get a charge point if you kill a walker. But you can also get another charge point from inflicting Weakening, too. 

    With PSV you only charge from attacks which fail to kill, Weakening charges from inflicting a status effect. 
    Attack one walker, inflict Weakening, chance to charge.

    From the same shot walker is killed, get second charge point
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  • Phalanx44
    Phalanx44 Member Posts: 350 ✭✭✭✭✭
    By all accounts, seems Weakening is superior to Perseverance in every practical way..

    Assuming you had to choose between the two, is there ANY real benefit to PSV?
    BenjaminTFuriousMoldovan
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Phalanx44 said:
    By all accounts, seems Weakening is superior to Perseverance in every practical way..

    Assuming you had to choose between the two, is there ANY real benefit to PSV?

    I’ve been trying to think of any reason or circumstance (class/strategy, etc.) why you’d ever pick perseverance over weakening but I can’t think of a single one. Would love to hear from anyone who has managed this though.

    I still like Perseverance though and I think it’s worth having both on bruisers. It’ll be interesting to see how the dust eventually settles and a consensus emerges. But with Weakening + Lucky being so effective at charging, and warriors/scouts still needing a lot of power to kill, I think some combination of Ruthless/Strong/Powerstrike doesn’t leave enough room for Weakening and Perseverance 
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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    find2046 said:
    How about Gabriel?  Does his hero traits work with PSV & WKN?
    That’s an interesting point. His trait activation boost makes Weakening even more powerful, right? He could be the Weakening King  :D


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  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gabriel %s are so low he'll never be king of anything except tending tomatoes


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  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    find2046 said:
    How about Gabriel?  Does his hero traits work with PSV & WKN?
    Yes, Gabe LT essentially works the same as Lucky.
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  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Phalanx44 said:
    By all accounts, seems Weakening is superior to Perseverance in every practical way..

    Assuming you had to choose between the two, is there ANY real benefit to PSV?

    Agree, I already replaced Psv for Wkng on Beta - works like magic 😎

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  • BenjaminT
    BenjaminT Member Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Phalanx44 said:
    By all accounts, seems Weakening is superior to Perseverance in every practical way..

    Assuming you had to choose between the two, is there ANY real benefit to PSV?
    I’m less sure about Scouts, if the non-body shots can’t result in stuns (i.e. Scouts) then a hero can get most of the benefits from Weakening if their teammates have it. I think it’s possible that a hero could charge faster with PSV if they team up with two other heroes with Weakening. If any class would go without Weakening then I guess it’d be Scouts because they can’t stun. 

    No idea how to work it out properly but maybe…. 
    Ezekiel: Lucky, Weakening, Ruthless, Strong
    RGG: Lucky, Weakening, Punish, PSV
    SRick: Strong, PSV, Ruthless, Power Strike

    In the above team I wonder if SRick having PSV instead of Weakening is a bit like having 60% of the benefits of Weakening and 100% of the benefits of PSV, maybe?

    If he had Weakening he’d have 100% of the benefits of Weakening but he gets nothing related to PSV. 

    I’m really trying to think of a reason to have PSV over Weakening  :D


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