Starbound Rifle is broken for defenders

IrishNudist
IrishNudist Member Posts: 47 ✭✭✭
edited November 2022 in Suggestions & Ideas
@Lexia we had this discussion before & I was assured that the Starbound “fix” was that it still would fire screen to screen & not map end to map end.  This does not appear to be the case.  This is a bug & the Starbound Rifle should work as its description reads.

Starbound Fail 1 - I would first like to point out that Shane:

> Is equipped with a lucky starbound

> Has gold primed on armor (which is enhanced by lucky rifle & lucky trait)

> Has Revenge & Retaliate traits

> Has Ezekiel as leader (meaning that Shane should fire before the attacker if an attack was directed at him) 

In the video, I move 2 hero survivors to different locations - both within LOS for Shane.  (Shane’s basic overwatch OR his primed overwatch should have activated here, but did not)

Next, I fire on Shane.  The leader trait inherited from Ezekiel did not activate & his retaliate did not activate (because clearly the range of his starbound is broken & therefore, my attackers were out if his range.)

https://youtu.be/xdUVl3j8AQ8

Starbound Fail 2 - Same team as in Starbound Fail 1 & similar circumstances of fail.  The main difference here is I shot Shanes teammate first (showing that revenge also does not activate) & also that Ezekieks LT, retaliate, nor overwatch activated (again).

https://youtu.be/P152gsEnt40

Starbound Fail 3 - Different team but Carol is equipped with Starbound & same traits & armor/weapon traits as stated above.  Just another example of this to add additional evidence of this disappointing bug.

https://youtu.be/r3dAb2OlvR8


FuriousMoldovans7eyeW8borneokid

Comments

  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Lexia
    It seems like this "fix" several months ago has limited Starbound range to only 8, which isn't a "limited to screen size".

    I've seen videos of others and videos of my defenders failing to Retaliate (or Revenge) while equipped with Starbounds and being beyond 8 tiles away.

    We paid cash to equip them on defenders because of their supposedly "unlimited" but now very limited range.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    IoSonoSempreNeganIrishNudists7eyeW8borneokidATLAS-Z
  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    Other possibility is to reduce to 8 tiles for attackers as well 😅

    What about screen size, are we sure it's the same for each player??
    If I play on iPhone72 is it the same number of tiles I can see on the screen than Nokia 3310?? 
    Because it would be unfair
    IrishNudist
  • s7eyeW8
    s7eyeW8 Member Posts: 23
    this needs fixed ASAP @Lexia, paying customers require confidence that their money spent earns advertised traits
    IrishNudistborneokid
  • Burmeliinis
    Burmeliinis Member Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Other possibility is to reduce to 8 tiles for attackers as well 😅

    What about screen size, are we sure it's the same for each player??
    If I play on iPhone72 is it the same number of tiles I can see on the screen than Nokia 3310?? 
    Because it would be unfair
    Screen size is different on different phones, so I guess that's the reason why NG nerfed it. 

    But agree with everyone else here. This nerf should be rolled back, and defender starbounds should have unlimited range. We NEED pvp to become harder, and this would be an easy way, and also support the players that have put real money into the game.
    Ingame username: Jubjab
    borneokidIrishNudist
  • Firekid
    Firekid Member Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would say that the whole screen size argument is a bit flawed. In so much that yes when we attack with a starbound we are limited by screen size. However, our overwatch attacks, Revenge, retaliate and preempt attacks are not. Our survivors will shoot a target we can’t see on our screens if they move. However the defenders don’t? 
    As such can’t it be coded so that defenders attacks on their turn are limited range but attacks on our turn are not? 
    IrishNudistBenjaminT
  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    Spend time to make a very specific code for one weapon seems not reasonable to my opinion.
    Let's keep it simple, unlimited range for everyone (defenders/attackers)

    And find alternative ways to reduce the monotony of full team with starbound riffle (for instance by buffing bullet dodge trait, as discussed on another thread) 
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also you could have the Defenders not always start out in aggressive mode. That way they might have to actually see you before attacking?


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • Lexia
    Lexia Member Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just wanted to jump in and clarify that this is not a bug, and the comment that was posted in the original message explains the change that was made and why.

    As the weapons original setup was not correct (and caused confusion and issues due to that), it is currently more likely not to be changed, but I have brought up the matter again with the team based on the feedback shared here.
  • IrishNudist
    IrishNudist Member Posts: 47 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2022
    Thanks for clarifying @Lexia!

    So overall, I’m fine with this not being classified as a bug & chalking it up to false advertising/incorrect wording for the special function.  The range of this weapon equipped on attackers, makes defenders utterly useless with it being so one-sided for the attacker… So maybe defenders need a rework or need to just be tossed out at this point.

    At the very least, some additional text needs to be added to the special functionality of this weapon stating that defenders are at a disadvantage & the unlimited range does not apply to them.  This will help people make a better purchasing choice without the false assumption that the weapon will perform as the functionality states.

    Again, thank you for hopping into this thread & also thank you for pushing this issue up to the rest of the team!
    s7eyeW8
  • Ragnaroek
    Ragnaroek Member Posts: 2
    Hello, @Lexia
    so do I understand this correctly now? I bought three Starboundrifle with fire for $16.99 each and they are now completely useless ?

    It was clear to everyone before that this weapon is only useful for PvP, i.e. attack and defence. Nobody  would play a challenge or anything else with it.

    Attacking in clanwars is so mega easy with the normal version alone, without the real money version. You just stand there and shoot everything to death with Overwatch.

    I re-skilled my defender traits, only to find that they don't even matter anymore because the SB just doesn't work properly as stated.

    Do I at least get my money back? I paid money to get a weapon with unlimited range. This is only conditionally the case, so clearly a deception of the player.

    The only possibility for players to actively influence the outcome of the war are the defenders. (Armour, weapons and traits)

    Why should the defender not be able to shoot all over the map, but the attacker can ? Where is the fairness here?

    As a defender you already have an extremely hard time because you can't use badges.

    85% DR or 60% more damage with the badges allow me to block any attacks of the defender or even to one-shot if Carol is there.

    You guys have said that Outpost is a dead mode and nothing is done about it anymore, even though the mode has just become pointless.

    Will still be in beta status for GW so please change something about the mechanics.
    The top guilds usually end in a draw....
    This is absolutely boring.

    Bring us leaderboards and change something about the human-missions.

    And give me my money back. You can have youre SB back, i dont need it anymore.


    RohlikzauchemIrishNudistNoiseratingShadowWalkers7eyeW8
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Has anyone played NML on a Samsung Flip?

    Wife's dad has one and the screen is SUPER. long and narrow. I often wonder what NML would be like on it.

    And with the starbound rifle. 


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

    IrishNudist
  • Mcellus
    Mcellus Member Posts: 9
    edited November 2022
    @Lexia

    Another weapon that contains false advertising is the bayonet. The charge attack is not a ranged attack. The attacks instead is a long distance melee. I had yumi as the leader and when i used the bayonet charge attack that didn't kill a walker yumi did not do a follow up attack while in range. This lead me to believe the bayonet charge attack is a long range melee attack and not truly a ranged attack 
  • zbot
    zbot Member, OW Moderator, NML Legendary Moderator Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Mcellus

    It only applies to ranged survivors (shooter, hunter, assault) not ranged attack.

    Hero: Yumiko
    Last Updated: 504d
    Yumiko is a Shooter hero, with the following Leader Trait:
    Firing Squad
    Whenever Yumiko attacks an enemy, all ranged allies within range of the target will attack it as well for a portion of their damage.
    As a leader, every ranged ally gains this ability.
    Weapons' areas of attack apply normally. For example, an assault survivor with a wide arc weapon will also damage other enemies that would normally be hit with a regular attack.
    Note: The trait does not apply if Yumiko's target dies
    BenjaminTIrishNudistATLAS-Z
  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2022
    Lexia said:
    Just wanted to jump in and clarify that this is not a bug, and the comment that was posted in the original message explains the change that was made and why.

    As the weapons original setup was not correct (and caused confusion and issues due to that), it is currently more likely not to be changed, but I have brought up the matter again with the team based on the feedback shared here.

    @Lexia regardless of classification, "unlimited range" shouldn't be limited to 8 for defenders. Having a range of 8 renders it almost useless for defenders (it's just +2 compared to regular hunter weapons).

    Please consider extending its range to at least 12 (double of hunter weapons). Some of us spent a lot of money on several Starbounds for defenders.
    Nobody likes bait and switch, especially when real money are involved.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    NoiseratingCronuss7eyeW8
  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    It would still be unbalanced for defenders for the case where attackers hit from 13tiles and they are not able to retaliate. 

    Or makes it 12tiles for everyone (attackers/defenders). It also solves the inequality between players on tablets on those on phones
    Lexia said:
    Just wanted to jump in and clarify that this is not a bug, and the comment that was posted in the original message explains the change that was made and why.

    As the weapons original setup was not correct (and caused confusion and issues due to that), it is currently more likely not to be changed, but I have brought up the matter again with the team based on the feedback shared here.

    @Lexia regardless of classification, "unlimited range" shouldn't be limited to 8 for defenders. Having a range of 8 renders it almost useless for defenders (it's just +2 compared to regular hunter weapons).

    Please consider extending its range to at least 12 (double of hunter weapons). Some of us spent a lot of money on several Starbounds for defenders.
    Nobody likes bait and switch, especially when real money are involved.

    FuriousMoldovan
  • FuriousMoldovan
    FuriousMoldovan Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Noiserating
    Read Lexia's feedback again. Slowly.
    Then read my response again. Slowly.

    Having its range extended to 12 for defenders is better than having it left at 8, correct?

    It's called negotiating a mutually acceptable compromise. Feel free to google what that means.
    Leader of the original TWD guild family (est. 10/2015). We Are TWD 😎
    FuriousMoldovan's NML Glossary & Guild Wars Difficulty Guide
    ATLAS-ZShadowWalkerNoiseratings7eyeW8
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like you more and more Furious one. LMAO


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

    FuriousMoldovanShadowWalker
  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    @FuriousMoldovan thanks, I read veeeeerrrrryyyy slowwwwwly... and I keep my position 🙃

    Fact 1: defender were able to shoot from end to end and that caused confusion to players => NG nerfed the range to 8 tiles for defenders to solve it

    Fact 2: players have purchased a lot of starbounds with real $$$ in order to have strong defenders. Some did it before the nerf, some missed the notes saying it was merged. => Frustrating because defender are not able to retaliate/revenge when the opponent use starbound at a range above 8 tiles

    Your proposal: extend defenders range to 12tiles

    Why I am not in favour of your solution: it only partially solve the problem because attackers will still be able on lot of spots to shoot defenders without having retaliate/revenge activation
  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    @FuriousMoldovan

    Then look at this picture. Slowly.

    Count the number of tiles between the two red circles. Slowly



    Now it's called a constructive feedback, feel free to google it to see what it means 
  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    More real examples this time to prove it is very common to reach above 12 tiles
    Stalker20
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Noiserating while you have valid points @Lexia has Point Blank stated they have no intention of changing this right now. So continuing to lobby for something that has been closed seems foolish. Now what @FuriousMoldovan is doing is trying to reopen a discussion of compromise. Very smart. Might not work but better chance than what you are doing


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    It is not as crystal clear as you say @ATLAS-Z because @Lexia said:

    "It is currently more likely not to be changed, but I have brought up the matter again with the team based on the feedback shared here."

    So I read it as the door is not shut completely.

    And I love lobbying...

    And the "compromise" suggested by Furious would not remove the frustration so it's not a good compromise to me. But I'm a free to play guy so Im not even concerned by the 16$ people spent for nothing .

    And I don't see why you see Furious proposal  as a compromise whereas my proposal should be seen as a "foolish, not very smart" one.
    IrishNudist
  • Noiserating
    Noiserating Member Posts: 194 ✭✭✭✭
    You know what @FuriousMoldovan, make your proposal 14tiles instead of 12 and I'm happy 😎
    ATLAS-Z
  • ATLAS-Z
    ATLAS-Z Member Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fair enough. Works for me too


    #Zombrex (Neo / Horizon / Genesis / Prime / Elite) 

    Are you Lost? Alone? Looking for a killer team to have your back?
    Join ZOMBREX! We have a tiered guild structure so players of every level and ambition can find a home they fit in.
    Remember, search ZOMBREX FAMILY. 
    Our page :
    https://m.facebook.com/Zombrex2015/

    Send me a PM or message ATLAS#5063 on Discord

  • MMindcrime
    MMindcrime Member Posts: 2
    I think we just can express our dissatisfaction of how the things with Starbound are managed. And we could hope someone at NG to understand that maybe NG is doing a mistake to change the quality of the equipment that we already bought from them.
    Some of us put a lot of resources and time to build a Starbound hunters as defenders and now all is gone.
    I feel stupid and I would consider if I would continue spending money on that game because what NG is doing now is just unfair.
    s7eyeW8IrishNudist